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David Dominguez

XTR prod and SR3 Price

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hey everyone,

I've been shooting a decent amount of 16mm lately and was thinking about investing in a camera. I have it narrowed down to the Aaton XTR prod or the Arri SR3 advanced.

I know there's a lot of factors but could you guys give me a ballpark estimate on what I could expect to pay for each camera in today's market? 

Thanks in advance! 

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probably in the 10k range in the US, especially if it includes 3 + mags, viewfinder extensions etc. Maybe expect to pay more for something fully services, less for something that needs a check up. In some cases a place like Visual Products will offer a 6 month warranty, so that can add to cost too (but arguably worth it for peace of mind)

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Robin is spot on. This is more than likely the height of the s16 market through this new wave of film. In regards to an investment and resale, I don't think you would make money from purchasing now (like you would in 2014--15) and if you did purchase now, you have the potential to loose money if prices start to come down. S16 is highly sought after (usually sync sound and twice the footage of most 35mm formats) and prices are reflective of that. The other issue is lenses. If you invest in S16 lenses you are kind of stuck with that format. You cant use them with 35mm film cams as they would destroy the shutter/mirror. As an owner of s16mm cams, its a beautiful format. I just sometimes question how much its here to stay especially considering most motion capture for streaming services is 4k+.

Edited by Jeremy Saltry

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The problem is finding a decent package these days. Sure, the pricing is crazy but everyone is looking and very few cameras actually land on websites that the average person views. 

For instance, I've sold 6 cameras in the last 2 years and all of them were word of mouth. I posted a few on here and the camera assistant group on facebook. But they were all sold to local friends outside of one that I recently shipped to Europe. So that's why it's so difficult to find good packages, they go fast. 

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1 hour ago, Jeremy Saltry said:

If you invest in S16 lenses you are kind of stuck with that format. 

Invest in 35mm lenses, that's what most people do. They work fine on 16mm. 

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15 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Invest in 35mm lenses, that's what most people do. They work fine on 16mm. 

Do you mean on Super 16 or also 16mm? I was once told that 35mm lenses don’t go with 16mm because of focal length etc.

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31 minutes ago, Willem Jansen said:

Do you mean on Super 16 or also 16mm? I was once told that 35mm lenses don’t go with 16mm because of focal length etc.

the shortest lengths need to be covered with dedicated 16mm lenses but for normal and long focal the 35mm lenses are great. 

using larger format lens on small format may cause additional reflections in lenses and camera and lowered contrast depending on the scene. you can control these with hard mattes or if unavailable, carefully masking the mattebox front with black tape lens-by-lens to reduce unwanted light outside the picture area

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Remembering some previous chat on this forum....To have the same sharpness in a projected image of the same size the 16mm camera lens needs about twice the sharpness of the 35mm camera lens. S16 superspeeds had about 200 line pairs/mm (lp/mm) and the 35mm versions only needed about half that.

Maybe later Zeiss is a lot sharper, so this is less important.  

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3 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

Remembering some previous chat on this forum....To have the same sharpness in a projected image of the same size the 16mm camera lens needs about twice the sharpness of the 35mm camera lens. S16 superspeeds had about 200 line pairs/mm (lp/mm) and the 35mm versions only needed about half that.

Maybe later Zeiss is a lot sharper, so this is less important.  

with older lenses this is for sure true, but I'd note that the zeiss ultra primes, master primes, and cooke s4s are all sharp enough for super 16 work. I also use a LWZ.2 on my super 16 cameras and its sharper than the mk3 s16 superspeeds. It's probably best to be safe on the wide end and use Ultra16s or Sk4s for a 12mm (and wider than that you need super16 glass anyway). For older era zeiss glass, the rule of thumb I was taught was that anything longer than a 35mm is most likely sharp enough for super16 work, so like a zeiss standard speed 40mm would be fine in theory. Still best to test though.

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6 hours ago, Willem Jansen said:

Do you mean on Super 16 or also 16mm? I was once told that 35mm lenses don’t go with 16mm because of focal length etc.

35mm format lenses work fine on 16mm. Obviously you aren't going to be getting a super speed 9.5mm lens for super 16, which is a pretty standard focal length for that format, but way too wide for 35mm. However, most 35mm lens kits start at 16mm anyway, you can even get down to 12mm. So you don't really NEED 16mm glass, especially with newer lenses which are crisper than older lenses. 

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Yeah, I just shot my thesis on Super 16 with a Cooke S4 18mm, and it looks great.  Maybe a bit more telephoto than most Super 16 stuff, but we were never hindered by the angle of view - granted, we were almost entirely exteriors.

S4's are also beautiful, so your mileage may vary, but I'd second investing in 35mm lenses. 

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