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Sam Bignell

Gels Melting on Open Face

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Hey Everyone

Not an expert with Gels alwasy used them on Barn Doors but recently tried to put inbetween a 800w Tunsgten Open face, That is 201 CTB LEE and Rosco E+ no Surprise it warped and buckled until it pretty much melted 30 seconds in

I heard you can put gels Inbetween barndoors on fresnels 5k and down but that must be HMI's only, I guess one can not simply put gels in front of Open Faced Tungsten units no matter the gel used

I looked up SuperGel but was surprised?? In it's specifications it says it has a lower Melting Point than Rosco E+ despite SuperGel being the High Temp option.

So my Questions are

  1. Would a Heatshield fix this or do they only help with making gels last longer not stop physicaly melting
  2. Super Gel from Rosco would that help?
  3. Is there a rule of thumb for this kinda stuff? How close is too close how hot is too hot?

Thanks in advance everyone!

-Samuel

 

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In the end you have to commit to making up frames of it and putting them on a separate stand. This is one of the incidental joys of LEDs (which of course may also be variable colour.)

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I've never had heat problems clipping the gels onto the barndoors of Redheads or Blonds. I wouldn't put them on a filter holder between the barndoors and the lamp itself, it gets very hot there, leave that space for the wire scrims and the safety glass.

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Posted (edited)

Was hoping there was going to be a clever rule of thump like anything 2k and ip tugnsten you need High Temp

But still Thanks for this!

Edited by Sam Bignell

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I've put gels on the barndoors of 2k as well, no problem.  Gelled open frames are really the way to go.  Saves time and gels.

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If you cut the gels big enough and clip then to the front of the barn doors in such a way that they bulge out - they last fine.

Putting the gel behind the barn doors will nuke them on most open face lights

Also with diff you can just clip to the front of the top barn door so the gel hangs loose. If you tilt the light down to accommodate you can a bit more spread because the gel is a effectively further away. It helps bit if you dont have frames and c-stands.

 

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@Sam Bignell I still use open face fixtures (Redheads, Mighty Moles). The heat shield will disappoint you. It acts like shrink-wrap when it heats and glues to the color gel. I threw it away 30 seconds after striking the lamp.

For open faces, the gel essentially needs to stay cool enough not to melt. This can be done with, 1) a loose clip to the barn doors, or 2) with a gel holder. My issue with clipping to the doors is that its not always far enough. So if you spot the beam the gel will begin to fade and crack in the center. And with 2K open face the heat of the doors themselves can melt a gel (this happened to me with a Rosco midnight blue, outside at night).

Your best fast and cheap option is to extend the barn doors out by another 6" to hang the gel from. I think a lightweight plywood like Lauan would do the trick. (I'm unsure if paperboard/chipboard will tolerate the heat, but it's worth a try.) OR, find gel frames that attach to the light stand. I have a couple 21x24 collapsible frames by lowel that attach to the stand but they seem to be nonexistent on the internet.

With 5K frenels, you can put gels in the "accessory slot" behind the arms that hold the barn doors. There are simple hinged metal rings just for this. This is not possible with open faces. I know lowel makes a snap-on glass dichroic filter (CTB) for their Omni Lights, and possibly for DP lights as well. Lowel in general manufactures great gel frames that attach to their lights, so gelling them is no problem.

Also, a note. Rosco gels are very thin and melt within a minute on open face barn doors. Lee gels are much tougher. If I ever have to clamp to the doors, I always use my Lee stock as they last longer. I keep the more colorful range of Rosco gels in the lowel frames, always.

Attached are examples of an insert gel frame, lowel attachable frame accessories, and a CTB dichroic filter on an omni light.

7¼-FILTER-FRAME-GEL-HOLDER-fresnel.jpg

GelFrame-and-Brella.jpg

Lowel-Omni.jpg

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Thanks so much for this, Them Frames looks great! As you said shame I can't seem to find them!

I guess glass dichroic filter (CTB) are the best option but expensive ofcourse.

 

It's really interesting you mention how Rosco is thinner than LEE because I've heard it the other way around but noted!

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18 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

Throw them all away and use bi color LED,s..  its 2020.. 

I like my red heads I refuse

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6 hours ago, Sam Bignell said:

I like my red heads I refuse

Donate them to the V&A ...   😉 

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10 minutes ago, Robin R Probyn said:

Donate them to the V&A ...   😉 

Get some Photon Beard LEDheads. Sorry, it's really called a PhotonBeam 80, but it's an LED redhead. Remote phosphor panels for top-banana colour quality, and you can interchange them for different colours.

P

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1 hour ago, Phil Rhodes said:

Get some Photon Beard LEDheads. Sorry, it's really called a PhotonBeam 80, but it's an LED redhead. Remote phosphor panels for top-banana colour quality, and you can interchange them for different colours.

P

Phil, I'd love some PhotonBeam 80 redeads! But they're so expensive, and low output comparatively. LEDs like the Aputure 120D, and Litepanels Astra are punchy enough for exact replacements. Still, though, no spot-flood :(

FYI, Astras are low wattage (105w), but they get around this by sinking the LED emitters in little reflector cones, and gives them a spotty throw. The 6x versions might suggest they've formed a more efficient emitter.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

Donate them to the V&A ...   😉 

Haha!

To be honest I spent nothing on all of my tungsten units, despite them being clearly outdated and hot and inefficient I still love them they still work on every job I go on Even as the main light source... Im that guy who puts up a 2K open face as a main source 😁

It doesn't really even have anything to do with CRI either I've always felt happier with more tungsten units at an almost no price than only one or two really good LED units

Love to get a 120D but I'm going to stick with my tungsten units 😉😉

Edited by Sam Bignell

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10 hours ago, Sam Bignell said:

Haha!

To be honest I spent nothing on all of my tungsten units, despite them being clearly outdated and hot and inefficient I still love them they still work on every job I go on Even as the main light source... Im that guy who puts up a 2K open face as a main source 😁

It doesn't really even have anything to do with CRI either I've always felt happier with more tungsten units at an almost no price than only one or two really good LED units

Love to get a 120D but I'm going to stick with my tungsten units 😉😉

"That guy who puts a 2K open face as main source ".. haha ..   Im only joking of course .. yeah if they cost nothing and work..  tungsten lights can look great .. Im old so I remember when there was only Red heads and Blondes .. and an HMI on a posh shoot !....  I just remembered a funny story, and I swear its true .. I was an AC in the 80,s on a BBC shoot ,made by an Independent prod co.. we were all freelancers .. anyway the shoot was in Greece on a small Island ,we had one light ..a Blonde ,one ext cable, one stand ,and a spare bulb ..  but due to BBC regs, we had to have a spark with us !!..  seriously .. a guy came all the way form London to Greece ,to put one light on a stand and plug it into the wall..  and I think this was done twice in a couple of weeks .. and you tell kids these days !

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11 hours ago, Stephen Sanchez said:

Phil, I'd love some PhotonBeam 80 redeads! But they're so expensive, and low output comparatively. LEDs like the Aputure 120D, and Litepanels Astra are punchy enough for exact replacements. Still, though, no spot-flood 😞

FYI, Astras are low wattage (105w), but they get around this by sinking the LED emitters in little reflector cones, and gives them a spotty throw. The 6x versions might suggest they've formed a more efficient emitter.

Agreed .. the Astra Lite panels are a great work horse light .. the Redheads of today !..

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From my experience you can usually clip the gels to the barn doors without issue... as long as you do not spot the lamp down.

use the lamp at full flood and you should be ok.

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