An Inconvenient Truth

[Dan Goulder]

When that argument falls, their next one will be to name all the benefits from global warming, like a sea route through the North Pole and farming in northern Greenland and Canada...

It's already happened. Trent Lott has excused the 'do nothing' approach by claiming the potential benefits of global warming, specifically that it would "help Northerners with their heating bills". It's unsettling to think that one of the most powerful members of the most powerful legislative body in the world could have such a feeble mind. (Maybe if he'd instead considered what it would do for Southerner's AC bills...)

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

You can't really make SUV's illegal, but you can raise mileage and emission standards that SUV's would naturally have trouble meeting.

 

 

It would also be nice if there were a law that made sure the "gas guzzler" tax money was used in environmental research or practice. The fact that they don't even put it back into the right system pisses me off....

 

I don't want to outlaw SUVs, or the like. For gods sake I love muscle cars from the late sixties/early seventies! The fact is most peeps aren't interested in performance value beyond reliability, which is fine because hybrids/electrics are very reliable. More so than cumbustion cars.. They spend for the social value of having a particular car. These huge monstrosities they call SUVs are modern day knights armor/armour.

 

Anyway, I'm a "conservative" type not allied with any political group. Not trying to make it more political here BUT,.....W and his clan are wayyy out in left feild.(uh, I mean right..) I think maybe they've been affected by a little heat stroke. :P I know bad joke....

[Mike Welle]

In the movie, Al Gore mentioned how millions of people will be dying when the waters flood into the coasts. Half of Florida will be covered if it continues at this trend, as well as California and the West Coast. The least Bush could have done was to sign onto the Kyoto Treaty, but instead he gives tax breaks to people who buy Hummers. Believe me fellas, there is no benefit whatsoever to millions of people dying, and when one of you are laying in your grave, I hope your ghost finds some sense of humor in the worms that are gnawing your eyeballs out and playing pinochle on your snout. After all, you can find some benefits to global warming (better known as Chlamydia--I mean Climateia, as Bill Maher says). Certainly, the war on terror is far more important than this "debatable" issue. While were at it, colleagues, why don't we debate the pros and cons of Nazism, murder and, I don't know rape--after all we can all sit by and rape mother earth and debate the benefits of doing so. Sometimes I wonder whether you folks are human beings. By the way, I would wager that none of this would be happening if all of those idiots hadn't voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. We know for a fact that Al Gore would have been elected if he hadn't run. New Hampshire was the state that would have given him more electoral votes and if you would have added Nader's votes onto Gore's it would have put him over the top. So, the next time an ultra-liberal Che Guerva type wants to say he loves America--remember who put George W. Bush in power--that Occam's Razor named Ralph Nader who shall ever have destroyed his precious reputation as consumer advocate and transformed it into megalomanic/extremist#1. Proud of yourself Bill Murray, Susan Saranon, Tim Robbins, Bill Maher, and Jeneane Garofolo? I will never, ever, ever vote for a Republican in my life. It's a two party system and democrats all the way. Here is a link to my site:

 

www.democrats.com

 

Yes, I know, now you all come by and say there is no difference between democrats and Republicans or very little. You say the democrats are spineless. I hear that from Lou Dobbs every night--"there are abuses on both sides." What he conveniently "forgets" to mention is that 95 percent of the abuses are performed by the Repubs and 5 percent by the Dems. He keeps his fat little job, doesn't rock the boat, and feels his conscience numb like cauterized flesh. Thus, language makes it seem like a 50/50 deal, and thus the native hue of resolution is sickled o'er with the pale cast of equivocation...or lack of thought.

 

The fact of the matter is if Al Gore had been President--as he should be we wouldn't be in this horrible, hellish mess right now. If I could flip back the pages of time and right that wrong I would. Bush stole Florida and is just a horrible, horrible man:

 

For who shall go about to cozen fortune and be honourable

Without the stamp of merit?

Let none presume to wear an undeserved dignity

Oh that estates, decrees and offices

Were not derived corruptly and that clear honour

Were purchased by the merit of the wearer

How many then should cover that stand bear?

How many be commanded that command?

How much low peasantry would then be gleaned

From the true stamp of honour and how much honour

Picked from the chaff and ruin of the times

To be new varnished.

 

By the way dudes, Bush probably stole Ohio in 2004. So enjoy your president while you can my lovely fools, and when the dinner bell rings for John McCain instead of Hillary in 2008, you can be sure as hell that the devil will be laughing as he melts the skies. What a lovely "moderate!"

 

Cheers

Mike Welle

[Tom Bays]

BDS

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

Mike- Nice post.. :blink: Is that the merchant of venice? Or...no. Thats merchant, no?

 

Kemper-What does "BDS" mean?

[Mike Welle]

Hello my Jedi Geek,

Having fun with your lightsaber underneath the covers? That's sweet my intellectual friend because if you think I have Bush Derangement Syndrome--maybe I'll borrow a little from Dick Cheney and be kind enough to tell you to "Go Fug Yourself."

 

BDS

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

:huh: I'm officially scared now. Thanks. :huh:

[David Mullen ASC]

While were at it, colleagues, why don't we debate the pros and cons of Nazism, murder and, I don't know rape--after all we can all sit by and rape mother earth and debate the benefits of doing so. Sometimes I wonder whether you folks are human beings.

 

I'm as big a lefty as you are, but lighten up, jeez... Can't you recognize black humor when you read it?

[steve hyde]

..Dr. Gore's slide show is the product of rigorous peer-reviewed research. I watched it at the cinema (looks awful by the way). Great argument though... "Inconvenient Truth" is sure to be the song-line for the democrats in 2008.. (2008! ouch that seems like a long ways off at the moment)

 

Steve

[Mike Welle]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, David! Its no wonder we democrats (I assume that's what you are) can't ever get into power. With friends like these...Gosh, that Mike Welle, he shure (get the microphone reference) is a psycho! Ha! Sometimes I almost feel just like a human being!

 

Thanks everyone, its been a blast! There's so many fish in the sea, they only rise up in the swell of smoke like mercury, and they keep you hangin' on...

 

Hey David, now's your chance to get me banned from the list--I've been a bad boy with the standard leader. By the way, I voted for that lefty Joe Lieberman in 2000 and that lefty John Edwards--gosh they make Lenin look like Adolf Hitler! I'm such a leftist. Clinton rocks!!!

 

It is no mean happiness to be seated in the mean.

 

Hillary '08, actually I'd rather have Gore, but beggars can't be choosy. She did after all, vote for the war and so did Lieberman, and Edwards and Kerry! Gotta represent the constituency and not vote our conscience. Oh, wait, I'm shooting down the party I stand for!

 

Mike Welle has no sense of humor because he is unable to understand black humor that gets misinterpreted by the barbarous multitude who twist its meaning into describing the benefits of global warming. Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, Clean Air Act=Pollution, we do not tortue=we do torture, 800 signing statements means Bush can ignore laws, Bush is all powerful, Cheney has his hand up his puppet.

 

David, to quote, Jake LaMatto in Raging Bull. Honey, let's be friends!

 

Mike Welle

 

I'm as big a lefty as you are, but lighten up, jeez... Can't you recognize black humor when you read it?

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

:blink:

[timHealy]

It's already happened. Trent Lott has excused the 'do nothing' approach by claiming the potential benefits of global warming, specifically that it would "help Northerners with their heating bills". It's unsettling to think that one of the most powerful members of the most powerful legislative body in the world could have such a feeble mind. (Maybe if he'd instead considered what it would do for Southerner's AC bills...)

 

yeah the do nothing approach will just help us spiral down a little faster. I'm from New York city where I thought I knew heat and humidity, but having been in LA for the past few weeks, last Saturday was hotter than anyone expected. From New York to California:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/25/us/25power.html

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/25/nyregion/25astoria.html

hp&ex=1153886400&en=33bbf8e4a63d1906&ei=5094&partner=homepage

 

paste that second link together if it breaks.

 

best

 

Tim

Edited July 25, 2006 by heel_e

[Raffinator]

Interesting article from an MIT professor giving a contrarian view on the global warming debate:

 

http://www.examiner.com/a-173632~There_is_...al_warming.html

 

Check it out.

[David Mullen ASC]

Interesting article from an MIT professor giving a contrarian view on the global warming debate:

 

You may want to read this about the MIT professor:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title...hard_S._Lindzen

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archi...-hol-testimony/

 

http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMaste...p;tstamp=200604

A Public Relations Campaign?

Dr. Lindzen's article appeared at about the same time as similar op-ed pieces by syndicated columnists Robert Novak (April 3) and George Will (April 2). A large number of additional anti-global global warming editorials have appeared in the opinion pages of many newspapers in the past week, including the Washington Times, Detroit News, and Arizona Star. Given Dr. Lindzen's history of accepting consulting money from the fossil fuel industry, it would be no surprise if his article was paid for by the fossil fuel industry as part of an orchestrated public relations campaign that included the appearance of all these op-ed articles. I am sure the industry is very concerned about the recent media attention on global warming that has hurt their position.

[David Sweetman]

Yes, God forbid trusting a scientist to tell us about science... it's much better when average citizens make up their own minds about global warning based on their political beliefs rather than listen to any annoying "facts".

 

I don't know about that, I haven't talked to many scientists. I don't trust high school teachers, college professors, or the media; at least I don't accept every word that comes from them as truth. Heck, they're still teaching naturalism and evolution - which are hardly as "proven" and "accepted" as you imply. I'd rather consider what they say while applying a measure of rational thought. And concerning this issue, scientists have absolutely no way of knowing what will happen next, they can only make conjectures and guesses. As informed as they may be, it's still a guess, it's a prediction, it's not guranteed.

 

 

Of course it's only a coincidence that the current increase in global temperature started with the industrial revolution...

 

Therein lies the "false cause." Did the change in temperature START with the industrial revolution, or did we just never MEASURE it before, while it's been changing at this same rate all along?

[Hal Smith]

I don't know about that, I haven't talked to many scientists. I don't trust high school teachers, college professors, or the media; at least I don't accept every word that comes from them as truth.

 

That's right! All those laws of optics, silver physical chemistry, electricity and magnetism, solid-state physics, etc., etc. that make photography possible are just opinions of those untrustworthy scientists.

 

It's a mystery to me where Luddites come from, I'm beginning to suspect a genetic defect is at work.

[Guest Kai.w]

That's right! All those laws of optics, silver physical chemistry, electricity and magnetism, solid-state physics, etc., etc. that make photography possible are just opinions of those untrustworthy scientists.

 

It's a mystery to me where Luddites come from, I'm beginning to suspect a genetic defect is at work.

One problem is that normal people and scientists often use the word "theory" differently.

 

-k

[Max Jacoby]

Heck, they're still teaching naturalism and evolution - which are hardly as "proven" and "accepted" as you imply.

Thank god we have the bible to tell us how it REALLY happened...

 

I'm glad I didn't grew up in a country that's so backwards that you have people sue the governemtn for teaching evolution in school. And getting away with it.

[steve hyde]

.... and in this thread laid bare is another "inconvenient truth." Actually it is the same "inconvenient truth": the majority of my countrymen reject science because science makes them question the authority that has disciplined them since birth: Don't question - just work, consume and breed - it is good for the economy !?!?

 

Another inconvenient truth is alternative visions for our future require questioning authority, civil disobedience and resistance to the current practices of every-day-life. This is also called being radical. If a person is disciplined not to question authority: to accept the truth of ancient books, then that person becomes an ideal citizen in a society ruled by the rich in service of the rich. Again: just work, keep your head down and buy more commodities: borrow money from banks owned by elites; buy a bigger safer car for your family; buy a bigger house in the suburbs and drive 2 hours into the city etc etc..

 

The inconvenient truth is that the "Truth" is always obscured. We have to go looking for it - nobody has access to it. We can only discover fragments of partial truths, half-truths and false truths, but no truth can be discovered by passively accepting. Passivity invites oppression. Critical thinking is the only way toward liberation.

 

Let's have a bit more Marxism around here :D

 

http://www.marxists.org/subject/education/freire/pedagogy/

[Leo Anthony Vale]

One problem is that normal people and scientists often use the word "theory" differently.

 

---Not use the word differently, but define it differently.

 

The 'normal people' definition of theory is in scientist talk a 'hypothesis'.

 

Theoreticaly people should have learned this in high school science classes. Yet...?

 

But the people saying: 'It's only a theory.' must be aware of this.

Which implies that those godly people are quite disingenuous.

 

---LV

[Matt Pacini]

Oh yeah, I remember a couple other "inconvenient truths" that were non-debateable facts that never came to pass:

 

1. In the 1960's, it was a "fact" that a California was going to split off into the ocean from a huge earthquake along the San Andreas fault. People were paranoid for years and years about this.

 

2. At the start of the Gulf War, Car Sagan (and other scientists) were interviewed constantly, on the "global catastrophe" that was going to happen if the Iraqi's lit the oil wells on fire. They said there would be a "nuclear winter", and had all the graphics, computer models, and other "proofs" that are exactly the kind of thing being used now to "prove" global warming.

They lit the oil wells on fire. Nothing happened. Oops!

 

I see everyone is just choosing to ignore what I said earlier;

GLOBAL WARMING IS HAPPENING ON OTHER, NON-EARTH PLANETS, and

VOLCANO'S ARE DUMPING SHITLOADS OF CO2'S AND GREENHOUSE GASES INTO THE ATMOSPHERE!

 

Do you guys think I just faked those 4 million URL's that show up in Google when you search for this?

 

And yes, there ARE benefits to global warming (those mentioned by David) AND there are drawbacks, just as there are for every climate event.

In fact, from a strictly scientific viewpoint, this whole framing climate change as "bad" is absurd and completely "human-self-centered".

Nature does all sorts of destructive things, so you can't from an intelligent viewpoint, see it as "bad" in a universal sense.

 

When it rains so hard that it floods, is that "bad"?

When there were glaciers in California that carved out Yosemite valley, was that "bad"?

Was it "bad" when it heated up so much that they melted? (no doubt flooding the Indians who lived in the areas).

Is it "bad" when there's an earthquake or a volcanic eruption?

 

These are all completely natural events, but they certainly cause humans and animals a hell of a time adapting, and some die in the process, but to say that for that reason, they're somehow "unnatural" is just bizarre?

The planet has NEVER been in some sort of equalibrium; the climate is ALWAYS changing and in a state of flux.

I mean, the magnetic North is shifting, for crying out loud. It has nothing to do with humans, but hey, maybe that will be the next "sky is falling" myth, where someone will say it's caused by cell phones or something equally stupid.

 

P.S. This last winter here in California, we broke low temperature and rain records, so it's a bit silly to say this heat is proof of global warming.

 

P.S.S. Millions of people dying from the coast flooding in California and Florida?

If so, this would be Darwinism at it's best, because even the most extreme predictions are saying the sea will rise about 8 inches over a couple hundred years. To drown in water rising so slow, that you can't even actually see it rising over your lifetime, would make you pretty damn stupid.

 

P.S.S.S.

That link posted above is brilliant:

http://www.examiner.com/a-173632~There_is_...al_warming.html

And a great ending quote too:

"Lastly, there is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition. An earlier attempt at this was accompanied by tragedy. Perhaps Marx was right. This time around we may have farce ? if we?re lucky."

 

MP

[Jon-Hebert Barto]

Thank god we have the bible to tell us how it REALLY happened...

 

I'm glad I didn't grew up in a country that's so backwards that you have people sue the governemtn for teaching evolution in school. And getting away with it.

 

 

England is just as backwards. For crying out loud , a black man sued for getting a job he thought he wasn't qaulified for! Why did he apply? So he could do just that. My point is, don't throw rocks in a glass house.

 

Also, you forgot to mention that in America the ACLU is sueing the parents of a 15 year old girl saying that she has the right to sleep with anyone she wants. (it was a 42 year old.) Obviously the parents overstepped their natural borders...!

 

Yes, America is in trouble. But so is your country, my friend. "We" are in trouble.

 

Of course the bottom line is you are %100 correct. I don't know what I'd do without my bible to tell me its wrong to kill or steal, yet alone expounding the "truths" that my sisters in the world are of a "rib"....?

Religion is the opiate of the masses, truely. Maybe I'm being a bit rude and I apologize if I did offend anyone. But this "intellegent design" business is a phrase of the far right created to legitimize their "teachings".

 

Again with a previously posted joke:

 

child-" Jesus, why did your dad put dinosaur bones in the Earth?"

 

jesus-" He put them there to test your faith, child."

 

Um, ya. Tested and failed.

[Tom Bays]

Every category of air pollution has fallen, with 2003, 2004, and 2005 showing the lowest levels of harmful ozone and particulates in the air since the monitoring of air pollution began in the 1960s.

[David Sweetman]

Thank god we have the bible to tell us how it REALLY happened...

 

You say that because it doesn't make sense to you that it happend that way. Great, well it doesn't make sense to me that it happend the way you say. It just flat-out doesn't make sense, in fact it takes a lot more faith to believe what you do, if you do indeed embrace naturalistic evolution. I can hear the response, "who are you to second-guess a scientist? Don't you know they've researched this?" Well, news flash, scientists have yet to produce conclusive evidence that mutation can and does occur, let alone that it can, over time, change one species into a completely different species.

 

 

I'm glad I didn't grew up in a country that's so backwards that you have people sue the governemtn for teaching evolution in school. And getting away with it.

 

I don't condone that approach at all...who cares what they teach? Let them teach what they want, as long as they don't present it as unassailable truth. That does only one thing, it prevents people from thinking critically.

 

Bottom line, if you buy everything everyone tells you, you're just a product of contemporary culture. Creation, the threat posed by global warming, eccetera, who knows what will be proven or disproven in years to come? The Catholic Church had its own scientists who supported the geocentric theory as unassailable truth. Any culture which refuses the possibility that a theory is fallible is comitting exactly the same misstep.

[Max Jacoby]

Next you're going to tell me that the earth is 6000 years old...