Ian Payne Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Hi, Got my 1st roll back today from dwaynes of 100d. I was really disappointed. Way too much contrast and blown out whites. Is this common or maybe just bad luck. I was Using a canon 310xl and a Bauer C royal, I think the bauer under exposed a little but the canon was spot on. I think maybe my expectations were up a little high after years of kodachrome. Does the 100d need to be perfectly exposed in perfect light? It doesnt seem to have much latitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Vincent Sweeney Posted June 10, 2011 Premium Member Share Posted June 10, 2011 I don't think their DR is much different. It's a reversal stock so its not going to have any room to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Payne Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 after looking at it for half a dozen times, Its the bauer c royal. I believe it to out by at least a stop under exposing. I will give it one more time but I will adjust the filter notch to open it up a stop. As for the 100d. Its pretty good and bits of the film were awesome with the canon 310, particularly in even light bright shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Stevens Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I am sending 9 rolls of 500T and 1 roll of 100D to Lightpress this week for scanning to 1080p. I am biting my fingernails on this because we were losing sunlight while shooting the reversal and don't know if it all came out. Hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Payne Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 The bauer C royals meter is eratic . Must be the olden days catching up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Vincent Sweeney Posted June 11, 2011 Premium Member Share Posted June 11, 2011 I always carry a Sekonic around my neck to occasionally confirm a S8 camera's meter. It wont always match up because it is metering in a different way, and you have unknown light losses with S8 zooms, but spot checks should be close and you get the hang of it after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Marti Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 E100D has a lot more contrast than Kodachrome... The blown-out highlights are a constant with this stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Schilling Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 If it's a scan your looking at, try projecting it and see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Cooper Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 E100D has a lot more contrast than Kodachrome... The blown-out highlights are a constant with this stock. Wow! Kodachrome was a very contrasty film stock itself - often plagued with blown out highlights. Almost inconceivable that Kodak would create a film stock with higher contrast than Kodachrome. My usual workaround Kodak's contrasty nature was to expose for the highlights and let the shadows turn to black. Better than having to deal with ugly, blown out bright areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Pierre Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Kodachrome 40 : Ektachrome 100D : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Hal Smith Posted June 12, 2011 Premium Member Share Posted June 12, 2011 7285 AKA 100D has a latitude of 7 stops. Shooting outdoors in the sun often requires a lot more latitude than 7 stops. Either use fill or accept the fact that you have to choose to blow out the highlights or lose detail in the shadows. Bouncing light off a piece of foam core or styrofoam sheet is a good way of filling out in the sun. The big boys fly huge butterflies overhead to tame the sun but that requires a lot of crew and rigging to pull off successfully (and safely!). You can get used to the requirements of shooting 7285 by buying some Ektachrome E100VS 35mm still film, it's exactly the same emulsion as 7285. A spot meter is helpful in evaluating exposure requirements out in the sun because you can meter highlights, midtones, and shadows individually to see what's the overall exposure range you're dealing with. Here's a link to the sensitometric chart for 7285 in stops, not log exposure: EK100D Sensitivity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Payne Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Thanks for the replys, I never ever had a problem with kodachrome. but, in saying that, for the majority I only had one camera. A 814 electronic that never let down. Now I have a zillion cameras that you never really get to know properly. (bauers, agfas, minoltas, nikon) So in short, Ill just be using my 1014e and 310xl until I get to know the filmstock a little better. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshmcdarris Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Hey folks! I had a similar question and thought I'd post it here. Here's my footage as projected: http://vimeo.com/25718642 Minolta XL401 100D & Tri-X. Everything from about :33-1:10 (100D) is under the shadow of a tree and is grossly under exposed. From what you folks have already posted, I'm assuming that if your scene isn't evenly lit, the camera (in auto) is going to expose for the brightest area in the frame, even if it's a small spot of light, and leave everything else underexposed. My camera has a manual aperture, but wouldn't I need to have a light meter to set it correctly? I'm getting a bit discouraged over the whole thing. Haven't found much specifically on my camera and this film, so if anyone could offer some guidance or point me in the right direction I would be most grateful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted June 30, 2011 Premium Member Share Posted June 30, 2011 Like all reversal stock, you are going to have to be spot on with exposure or maybe slightly underexposed. I have long felt too that S8 shooters should ALWAYS use an external light meter. Not just because of the potential that the in-camera meter is wonky but also because when you have a meter that is constantly changing, it will show up as a strange type of flicker when you get it processed and telecined. At the very least, take an auto reading and then manually lock exposure to that. I would still recommend an external meter to make sure. If you feel the 100D or other reversal stocks are too hard to nail exposure, try 200t or 500t if you haven't already. They are pretty easy to get in the right ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Alessandro Machi Posted July 4, 2011 Premium Member Share Posted July 4, 2011 Did we establish how the film was being viewed before it was deemed "contrasty"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Stevens Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 When filming my short, Miscommunications, we did not use an external light meter. We relied on our Nikon R10's internal meter for shooting, but with a catch. We'd get an average on our readings and then set it t that manually. That way we would not get any movement while turning the camera. It seemed to work. Of course, some Super8 cameras do not have that manual setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshmcdarris Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Okay, so lets say that I'm shooting Vision3 500T in my XL401 (which the camera would probably think was 160T or something). I have a 220° shutter and shoot at 18fps, so according to my calculations I have a shutter speed of 29.45. So with my light meter handy, I would set my ISO to 500 and the shutter speed to, lets say, 30. The reading should give me the correct aperture, yes? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Will Montgomery Posted July 5, 2011 Premium Member Share Posted July 5, 2011 You can do the calculations, but with Super 8 cameras it is much easier to simply move the camera quickly to the area you want to shoot, set the exposure and lock it, then go back to where you want to shoot from and anything in that shady area would be exposed properly. Of course everything in the sunny areas would be blown out but that is the nature of film (and video for that matter). After a while you start to get a feel for it and know to manually compensate; you start seeing shadows and light in terms of f-stop differences... it's really weird. Look at some Kodak sample DVDs and you can see where they freeze frame and mark the f-stop compensations on the images; I see the world like that sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Tuohy Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Okay, so lets say that I'm shooting Vision3 500T in my XL401 (which the camera would probably think was 160T or something). I have a 220° shutter and shoot at 18fps, so according to my calculations I have a shutter speed of 29.45. So with my light meter handy, I would set my ISO to 500 and the shutter speed to, lets say, 30. The reading should give me the correct aperture, yes? Thanks again! Hi Josh, not quite. That would be correct if the camera's reflex viewfinder system made use of a mirrored shutter. Most super 8 cameras don't use a mirrored shutter. Rather, they work like a bolex - having some kind of beam splitter (either a prism or a semi-silvered mirror) to divert some of the light to the viewfinder and let some light through to the film. So not only do you have to take the camera's shutter opening into account, you also need to factor in how much light is diverted to the viewfinder. This isn't something you can just work out. You have to shoot a carefully bracketed exposure test on reversal film (has to be reversal, no point in shooting such a test on negative). That said, if you intend to only use colour negative film, then exposure isn't nearly as critical. I would suggest working with your exposure calculation, then opening up one stop to factor for light loss to the viewfinder and the results will be good. Better, however, to shoot a bracketed test though on reversal though, once and for all. As for your question regarding how camera's light meters work, no, they don't just look at the brightest part of the field of vison and base the exposure on that. It is more likely that the meter will work by effetively averaging all the light coming in through the lens. Some cameras might have a 'centre-weighted' system, which puts more emphasis on the light in the centre of the frame, but in general, exposure systems in super 8 cameras aren't particularly sophisticated. A bright object or light source in the frame will affect the exposure, that is for sure. So you need to think about what it is the camera's light meter is seeing and basing the exposure on. If there is something bright that you don't want the meter to take into account (ie you don't want a bright white car to look like a grey car, or you don't want the camera to be tricked by a bright reflection of the sun from a car's windscreen) then frame up the shot without these things visible, and base your exposure on what the camera said when the bright objects were not in the shot. enjoy super 8 richard Edited July 7, 2011 by Richard Tuohy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Pierre Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 To correct the differences in brightness of the subject, one can use a gray card or white diffuser cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshmcdarris Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Apparently when I have my camera set to Auto it closes the aperture down all the way to f/32. Will have to do some tests to see if the aperture is stuck at f/32 or if putting it in manual will work. If this doesn't sound right or you think the problem might be something else please let me know! Thanks for your replies btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavel Shpak Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Here is a sample with the canon 310xl http://www.pavelshpakphotography.com/CiNE-Super-8mm.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Marti Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Following the advice of some friends at the spanish super8 forum, I've processed E100D at 28ºC and the results were very impressive. No more ultra-saturation and excessive contrast. Now it looks absolutely great: clean whites, good saturation and tonal scale,... What a difference with the old 100D I've shot! At last, I'm very happy with this stock B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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