They said film was dying

[Adrian Sierkowski]

But apparently now you can pick up a S8mm camera along with a sweater:

 

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/productdetail.jsp?id=26918532&parentid=APARTMENT_MEDIA

 

and some cool mugs.

 

I guess this is kind of awesome, as it's opening up the format to a lot of new people. Many of whom, no doubt, will hate it, and a few of whom may well spark a new passion. For this is am truly excited; but at the same time, man it just seems weird to me to be shopping at urban outfitters for film and camera equipment.

 

Still, it's a Phila company so I'm a little excited about that. And who knows, maybe this'll be the next hip thing (though honestly, really jacking up the prices a bit...)

[Mark Dunn]

$400 for a Canon 310XL is a bit cheeky, though.

As to dying, I think it's being murdered.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

S8 will never die. The guys that are diehard about that format (I love it but Im no die hard) would probably find a way to home spool it by cutting 35mm into 8mm widths and use modified hole punchers for spockets and put it into their soviet era refillable catridge. Seriously, Ive heard of some strange things from these s8 guys. It will never die.

[Geoff Howell]

but sadly no readily available color reversal film to put in the bloody thing.

[Matthias Greving]

There is a lot of color reversal film available. Just take a look at www.wittner-kinotechnik.de for example.

And other stocks will be available in the future.

[David Cunningham]

but sadly no readily available color reversal film to put in the bloody thing.

 

Don't forget Spectra's (all be it overpriced) Velvia 50D reversal Super 8. Just picked myself up 2 rolls last week.

 

I'd be willing to bet Pro8mm will come out with one soon enough too, probably from Velvia. Maybe Velvia 100D.

[Geoff Howell]

the thing is though how many of the hipsters buying that camera from Urban Outfitters are going to be aware of Spectra or Cinevia?

Until the supply of 100D drys up there are at least four or five well known shops near me that I can casually buy film over the counter at a decent price.

 

Also I'd be very very weary about being too dependent on Fuji continuing to supply the Raw materials,

A couple of years ago Cinevia and Retro8 in Japan were planing on selling single8 cartridges loaded with Provia 400X, apparently Fuji were more than happy to supply the film and everyone was happy; but right at the very last minute Fuji pulled out saying that they were concerned about the film jamming in cameras and having to deal with angry customers wanting their money back.

 

Cinevia/Retro8 unsuccessfully argued that:

A, the film would not jam as they had tested it thoroughly.

B, the cartridges wouldn't feature the word 'Fuji' on the labeling so any angry customers would be handled by Cinevia and Retro8

 

Anyway, it seems that Fuji moves in very mysterious ways and it's not totally inconceivable that they could pull the supply of Velvia and Fujichrome on a whim or worse still end production all together :blink:

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Geoff's statement is the reason why film might possible die one day. Film shooters stress too much about the future instead of shooting now. Who cares is Fuji stops making it in the future? Shoot some film now. Maybe the world will come to an end friday...does that mean dont shoot film too?

 

Digital shooters, for all their evils, tend to worry about the equipment they have now and shoot now. Some do chase the latest and greatest camera (was Red, then Alexa, now people are waiting for BMCC) but many just go shoot.

[Dom Jaeger]

Digital shooters, for all their evils..

 

Matthew, it's an industry, not a religion. Dividing the world into "film shooters" and "digital shooters" is completely out of touch with reality. Is forum member Richard Boddington a "digital shooter" now that he shot a movie on an Alexa? What would you call OP Adrian, or David Mullen, who regularly use digital cameras? The question is whether film can survive as a niche medium, maybe by exposing a new generation to its charms via a mainstream clothing chain. It's got nothing to do with whether "film shooters" (whoever the hell they are) go out and "shoot film now".

 

Personally I think this marketing strategy will be about as successful as the the LomoKino thing, which caused a great buzz and then faded away. Particularly given the prices they're charging.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

I see "digital shooters" as a paradigm, not as one who shoots a digital medium. Adrian, David, and Richard were trained in the discipline of film, even if they shoot digital as well. Its not a religion, sure, but I was making a point that so many people wank about film dying but wont pay for it. Simple economics is that if people arent spending money on something, people will cease to supply it. Simple as that. Perhaps your agitation with my post is due to your own willingness to embrace a technology that you know to be inferior? And I do feel that Mr. Boddington is being a bit of a sellout by shooting the Alexa but its his project, his budget, and he can do whatever he wants to. David and Adrian are different because they are largely limited to what their employers want to pay for. However, Im sure that both of them, if it were their choice, would select format based on what's right for the job, not based on whether a new camera is out that "I just gotta try!" At least that is what I would like to believe.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Well; to be honest, sometimes there are cameras I just want to try ;) That's why I am so thankful to know a few very attractive men and woman who don't mind spending a day or so with me for a few beers to play 'round with a system a bit.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

No problem Adrian. Of course all "experts" like to view as many tools of their trade as possible. However, if Im a producer, Ill be damned if I want someone experimenting on my dime. Tried and true is what I want. Just keeping it real.

[Bill Rodgers]

A readily available $50-$75 Canon 310XL (via eBay) for a whopping $395 from Urban Oufitters.

 

For that price I could easily purchase another Canon 1014XL-S or even a Braun Nizo 6080 kit.

[Zac Fettig]

You know...

 

Urban Outfitters does a lot to make the arts a bit trendy. Like selling Holgas (at a huge markup though). Or those Super 35 cameras they sell. It's a toy, but I still want one.

 

It's a good thing. If you want reversal film to come back, this is the only way it'll happen. If only pros are using super-8, it'll be treated as a pro format. For example you get Kodak dropping Ektachrome and replacing it with Vision3 50D. Personally, I have no great love for Ektachrome, and I'm glad they did that. I find Vision 50D to be way more useful, especially when my workflow always includes a telecine. But I know a lot of people want color reversal. Personally, I want color reversal, but in R8, not S8.

 

And maybe they'll get it. If they sold a super 8 equivalent of the Lomography super-35 camera, with a viewer, there would be demand for super-8 reversal. Mainly because of the Urban Outfitter crowd. But I don't think selling $30 310 XLs for $400 will take the format very far. Even if you can get it with tiger print stickers.

 

That said, I wish they sold brand new super-8 cameras for around $50.

[Geoff Howell]

true, I'm very interested in where Lomography is getting their 110 color film, some say it's repackaged stock from an Italian company others are saying it's produced on commission somewhere in China.

[Mark Dunn]

The only way I would ever shoot Super-8 again is if I can get 50' of film that I can view straight out of the mailer for about £11, I suppose that's about $17 now, the price of my last cartridge of K40. That's not going to happen.

[Gautam Valluri]

As much as I dislike the 'lomography' school of shooting film stills, I am thankful that they have started this hipster trend which is bringing back options in shooting still photo film. I thought the LomoKino was pointless but then I wondered what if they branch out into Super8? If they can manage to generate a trend like they did with still film- it will really help create 'demand' and hence supply.

 

I don't mind my talentless friends shooting film as long as they are spending money on it and helping it find its place in this day and age. So if the $395 refurbished Canon 310XL gets bought a lot, these people will be googling for Super8 film!

[Gregg MacPherson]

true, I'm very interested in where Lomography is getting their 110 color film, some say it's repackaged stock from an Italian company others are saying it's produced on commission somewhere in China.

 

Any more info on that produced in China rumour? Was that producing from scratch or just slit. perf, package...?

[Zac Fettig]

The packaging for their "Orca" film (the B&W) says made in china. No more details.

 

I doubt they're importing Italian or German raw stock. My guess is that it's a domestic Chinese film stock. Probably from the same supplier who does their other films, since you can buy the same red-tinted film in 110 that they sell in 35mm.

 

Heck, even North Korea produces their own film (in Super 8 too!).

[Doug Palmer]

North Korean Super-8 ?

Really ?!

I'd like to try some. Just might ease the current tension, at least among analogue film users.

 

Doug

 

http://www.filmisfine.co

[Gregg MacPherson]

...... My guess is that it's a domestic Chinese film stock. Probably from the same supplier who does their other films, since you can buy the same red-tinted film in 110 that they sell in 35mm.

 

Heck, even North Korea produces their own film (in Super 8 too!).

 

I never tried S8, but am curious about 16mm. Maybe here in New Zealand, which is (or used to be) a sort of benign democratic socialist country, the Nth Koreans may let us try some LLOL (literally laughing out loud).

 

Thinking of engineers and entrepeneurs in China. They are amazingly good at back engineering anything and putting product into niche markets really fast. In ways and on a (small) scale that would be completely impossible in the west. This is just a laymans quick view of what has been happening for a while. So there may be hope for niche or fringe dwellers who want film. and possibly processing. And they (the Chinese) are not on their own.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Gregg MacPherson

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I thought I had heard, however, that the only Chinese manufacturer of film, Lucky, has entirely stopped producing stock. Which sucks, as I hadn't really given them any kind of look, and once I did see some of their films, really wanted to pick up a roll or two.

[Zac Fettig]

If anyone out there needs inspiration to make their own film:

 

http://hackaday.com/2009/12/08/homebrew-kodachrome/

 

That's all it really takes to make film. Plus gear to slit and perf it. A dedicated person who wanted to can do it in their garage. You can buy the empty shells from Kodak in bulk, or Spectra in small quantities (they buy them from Kodak). If Kodak goes under, the carts can still be manufactured. If you want about a thousand, no problem.

 

"What one man can do, another can do."

 

Although, if Kodak pulls out too, I see more of a market for 35 and 16 than S8. Kind of like ORWO and the absence of Plus-X. They don't sell ORWO S8 in the US, although it is available in Europe.

 

So there is almost guaranteed to be film available, if there's still a market. Look at Polaroid. And let's face it, Polaroid kind of sucks. But Super-8 is kind of awesome! And tenacious. There hasn't been a mass market* S8 camera made in 30 years, and it keeps on trucking along.

 

Although the Polaroid Super-8 (Polavision) was kind of neat.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Well if you ever get really desperate for film you can just grab some plants:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthotype

 

and go nuts.. but the hours long exposure time may be too much for motion pictures ;)

 

Still, that said, I agree that in the end I feel there will be film for a good long while. if there is a demand for it, then a market should emerge to service that demand at a scale which makes financial sense (and profit).

What that market may look like in 10-20 years, I have no idea. But, I am sure for the next few years at least I will still be enjoying loading up with 52 or 72 something and shooting something.

[Geoff Howell]

Ahh yes! I remember the whole North Korean super8 story!

it's all documented here, unfortunately it seems that this stock is our equivalent of Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster :lol:

 

It's really funny how everyone was so desperate for it to be true, the main argument seemed to be "well it's a know fact that Kim Jong Ill is a massive film buff and if you look at recent footage of North Korean military parades you'll see loads of camera men wielding Arri SR's and various Aatons!"

 

however the sad truth is in a country where even the middle classes are on the brink of starvation a fleet of fully kitted out RED's or Alexa's is no doubt way beyond the budget NK state TV