Industry input on daughters career path with a portfolio website question mixed in

[Glenn Batson]

I'm a dad who's daughter dreams of being a Cinematographer. She has had some success in here high school AVP class for last three years. The stuff we see her doing seems college level to me and her teacher has been very impressed with her and her partners she works with. Late in the game in relation to decisions on going to college I have come to find what making it in this industry can be like. Without much thought she applied to UT Austin and didn't get in and decided to go to UT San Antionio and look to do a year and transfer to UT and get into their Film program. About a week before her checking into her dorm I started doing research which was an eye opener. To shorten this up I'm at this point thinking after one year of getting her basic (she is actually going in almost a sophmore due to a lot of AP credits) classes out of the way she should quit school and try to get her career started. Saving 40k in student loans. She has idea of moving to LA but I'm trying to convince here that she is going to have to live at home and work the Texas flim market (Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antinio). Basically free rent, free car, free food, etc while she tries to get going. Then we just go from there and see what happens. We live in College Station which doesn't really have a film market but is 2 hours from all the places I listed. If it gets to the point she is making some traction I'm even willing to like by her an travel trailer to go stay in these locations on a more permanent basis. Also initially she has family in all these areas that she could use to room with for short periods of time.

So what am I looking for.

1) Any comments or recommedations on the above. I realize your going to need to know where her skills stand. I'll try to be short with a summary below.

3 years of High School Audio Video Production classes with a great instructor. Class were two periods long and she was in the top three in this class, all of this while taking a heavy load of AP classes and graduating with a 3.99

HS AVP President her Senior year

SkillsUSA competition District (2nd place), State (1st place), National (20th)

Now the real stuff, which is her best most recent work where she functioned as Cinematographer and almost alwayst he primary Camera operator with a lot of handheld but also did scripting, editing, just no acting:

Demo reel from Junior Year (2016). She is working on updating for her Senior year where her best work has been.

SkillsUSA Competition

Background 2 person team are given a prompt then have to create a 3-4 minute short based on that prompt. They only get about 24-36 hrs to get it done. They have to have a script and other documetatnion and do an interview with judges that counts towards their score.

2016 District 4th Place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olKH9FpR49c

2017 District 2nd Place (advance to State)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUCSjZNj4RI

2017 State 1st place (advance to Nationals)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6iGGL2tVJU

2017 National 20th Place (and of course not happy with placing and judging, welcome to life)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3WYQ07pKBM

Funded Short (2k budget, hired actors, rented equip)

Only have the teaser. Her partner has film and is keeping it off for some reason while submitting to film festivals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us7VuMCnDPw

More with her partner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qqvAMJnzg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1zoTIDyjuE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik4Fz03mlCk

Sorry I know this was a lot of your time. What I'm really trying to get is whether I'm just a dad (with family) who goes wow that is good for High School. A teacher that is very high on her and her partners (Chris Greening, Melted Media). A dad that really doesn't want to go into 40k more of debt. There is probably more you need to know but am I kidding myself about the quit school option and go for it. Note she has a lot to do and plan is to do that while she is in school for this year. Updated demo reel, portfolio website, business cards, getting registered in any contact DB (such as Texas Film Commission), studying on her on, continuing to shoot, start networking.

2) Regarding portfolio website what should she represent herself as? So she wants to be Cinematographer/DP but she will need to start out lower. So what does that mean for her website. How does she represent herself. Does she call herself a Cinematographer? Filmmaker? Storyteller? Camera Assistant/Trainee which is where she'll probably try to get going? She doesn't want to misrepresent herself.

Well if you made it this far, thank you so much for your time. I try not to be an overbearing father but I want to help my daughter and provide here with whatever assistance she needs and also try not to steer here in the wrong direction. I know a lot of it is her drive and her responsiblity. In the end I know she'll be fine no matter what happens but would like to hear from you guys in the industry.

Dad

[Max Field]

Put her through a respected trade school, not college. Or encourage her to work 15 hours a day at it in self-production to better her own skills, that's before even applying for jobs/gigs. As the parent, you gotta test the sense of urgency with this. If you don't really feel that, tell her to give it up.

[Stuart Brereton]

Glenn,

 

Everyone here is going to tell you a different story, and give you different advice. There is no one, set, way to work in this industry. Many people start at the bottom in the camera department, and work their way up over a period of years to DP. Others go to film school, and seek work as a DP directly after graduation. Both approaches work, but not all the time. What is going to be most important for your daughter is that she gains skills wherever, and however she can, and that she is prepared to put in some seriously hard work. It is not going to be easy. It's often a case of one step forward and two steps back. Even people who have been in the business for a long time have good years and bad years. Realistically, if she wants to move to LA, she's going to be starting out as a trainee, or 2nd AC. There is a lot of work here in the non union sector for ACs, and even though it's not well paid, it can be a valuable stepping stone to better jobs. She could try coming here as a DP, but the LA market is flooded with young 'DPs' most of whom have little or no experience. The ones who find work generally do so either because they own their own camera package, and so they buy themselves onto jobs, or they are graduates of a prestigious school like the AFI, and so despite of their inexperience they have high powered agents. It really is a wild and wacky market.

[Landon D. Parks]

If she wants to be a cinematographer, and she can't imagine ever doing anything else - then she needs to get a head start now. While college is a good backup plan, it will not even be considered when interviewing for a role as a cinematographer on a film. Even a prestigious film school will only be as good as your connections you make there. In the filmmaking field, what you can do is what counts, not what the paper you have says you can do. It's a results driven industry, where the 'demo reel' is king, and your main calling card - especially as a cinematographer.

 

I'm ceretainly not discouraging going to college. I went, if only as a backup career option in the (more likely than not event) that the film industry does not pay out a perfect salary year-after-year. Thankfully, I have been doing okay insomuch as I havn't had to have a second job to meet my needs, but I'm thankful I have my degree to fall back on - in education.

 

One thing I would steer away from, unless you just have money to burn, is going to film school. As mentioned before, school plays little to no role in future jobs as a cinematographer, short of these hypothetical 'film school connections' that never really seem to show any proof of actually existing. She would be much better off getting a REAL degree in something that she can actually get a job at with that degree. She doesn't have to use it immediately, but having it might well save her butt later in life. A film school degree is worthless outside the film industry, and pretty much worthless there as well. IN my opinion, film school is a product of a bygone era, when you needed the structure and support of a school to provide you with a chance to practice making films, provide you with equipment to make them, and fellow classmates to help you. The industry has not been like this for a while. With the advent of social media, it's very easy to find a core group of people who share your passion on your project to help you. Cinema-quality equipment can be had for peanuts, and much less than the cost of a single film school class - let alone a degree that will set her back $100k in debt. What will she come out with on the other end? A few connections with fellow students (if shes good at networking and/or outgoing), and a few short films for a reel. Frankly, she could have racked up these short films in a year or less, rather than the 4-years required for the degree.

 

Now of course there is some value in the film education provided. You'll sit through every kind of filmmaking class you can imagine - writing, directing, camera dept., lighting, film theory, etc, etc... You will learn a very broad knowledge of pretty much everything - but this is becoming less and less needed now that there are DVD film schools for less than $1,000 that will teach you the ins and outs of pretty much everything in the industry. Lets also not forget that great thing known as Youtube, and even Vimeo.

 

So that is my take a film school. I didn't go, and got my degree in education as a fallback. This is what I'd suggest she do, not drop out of school entirely.

 

A perfect route for her would be to enroll in a school that has a really good film program, but do another degree. While attaining her degree, she should purchase some equipment for a few grand and in her spare time, build a reel over the 3 or 4 years shes at school. If she wants to network with film students, and she is outgoing, she can just meet up with them - she doesn't need to attend the same classes. If she has her own equipment and things, many of these students will be falling over themselves to work with her.

 

The important thing to remember here is this: Always have a backup plan in the film industry. It's an extremely hard industry to break into, and just as hard to stay in once your there. Unless you're one of a few select cinematographers, you're not going to be getting a lot of constant, good paying gigs. As much as it pains me to say, you just can't set-out from college and say 'I'm going to be a Cinematographer (or director, or editor, or insert something else here) - there is no promises in this industry. You might become one of the lucky few, but the odds are very high for failure.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[Landon D. Parks]

BTW, if she wants to get involved with the Texas film industry, she needs to be in Austin. Dallas and Houston have some film-related things, but most of the Texas industry is centered around Austin.

Edited August 27, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[Glenn Batson]

Thank you for all of those that took time to view and especially those that responded so far. I've done quiet a bit of research and do understand that there are many answers to that question of college/film school or not. Actually my initial reason for posting was more about the portfolio website versus school/no school question. The lead up to both questions I felt required the background information I provided so I thought why not just ask both. Probably should have stuck with my initial thought.

 

With that said I feel my daughter is very motivated to make it in the industry. While in AVP for 3 years she also took a big load at school but that didn't keep her from shooting at every opportunity. Many nights were spent catching up on school work because she spent her full weekend shooting or doing other jobs for AVP classmates. She loves it. What is interesting is how you find your crew to work with. This happened into school. She gravitated to the kids that loved film and were good and passionate as her about it. The one friend is Chris Greening which is the Melted Media guy and main actor in her recent films. Those two make a great pair along with another AVP friend that did well in their class is also in the mix They watch films all the time together and always seem to be collaborating. It is is almost like those three need to pair up and give it a go themselves. They are going the college route too but have made a pact if school isn't for them they plan dropping out and heading to LA together. Fortunately one of them's parents are wealthy and maybe could help fund that. Our family could not and why I think she would needs to make a go here in Texas (and even Louisiana).

 

So with that out of the way I really would like to change my focus to just with her current skills (if you watch any vids see Dist 2017, State 2017, and the Funded Short teaser) how does she present herself on her portfolio. She'll definitely have a reel. She will have links to the actual films. The part is the bio or how she represents herself in that. Does she just flat out say she is recent student (don't mention school) of film making and wants to get a job in the Camera Department with the goal of one day becoming a Cinematographer/DP. Or does she represent herself as a Cinematographer. Or does she just call herself a filmmaker. She definitely wants to go int he direction of camera work and lighting. This is sort of an elementary question and I guess I really should not worry about it. Even though all the research though i just wonder about that initial break in and how you she represents herself.

 

And if you got time here are some other comments thoughts;

 

She right now is just doing basics and not film. She has gone in with enough credits to almost be a sophomore already. Her partner Chris thought is going to school in New Orleans at Loyola and has taken a beginning film class. They laughed because their one project is to make a 3-4 minute film. Like int he competition my daughter and Chris can whip that up in a out 24-36 hrs.

 

On my daughter and motivation. It is one thing to be good at lighting, be good with the camera, collaborate well with a director and crew, be creative and one thing to be a freelancer and have that pay the bills and do all the business side and hustle that is needed. I'm okay with her going to school because she is only 18 and that year away will hopefully lead to some maturity. She is already seeking out the Video Production department at UTSA. If I have any question about her it is when reality hits in the business side and at 19 next year is she ready for that side of it. One reason I think she will really have to stay home and work in Texas and Louisiana market.

 

Again thanks for the all the responses. It is great to see people give back even in this little way.

 

Dad

[Glenn Batson]

Thanks Landon. Yeah Austin is where it is at. In College Station we are about 1.5 - 2 hrs away and she and we have friends we could count on to put her up in Austin for gigs. Speaking of Austin her friend Chris got offered to intern with Linklater (through family connections) but turned it down due to other responsibilities. We were flabbergasted he didn't do it and was like next time he needs to pass Anna's name along. Oh well maybe that is a future contact. We also have some old time Austin-ites (John Henry Faulk fame) that may have some connections in Austin that we can pursue. Got to work all angles I think. We will see. Again thanks for your responses. For me is what is on her work really mean she could step out and do it now. Here teacher thought so. I would like to think so but am new to film industry and just found out a lot by researching the internet. I like learning new things.

[Tyler Purcell]

Hi Glenn,

I teach high school level cinematography and filmmaking courses at one the premiere arts high schools in the US; LACHSA. I also adjunct teach and lecture at local colleges, plus have my own college-level private film school called Celluloid Dreaming Inc. At high school, we just started a new semester and one of the first questions I ask my students is what they plan on doing when they graduate. I then discuss "college" and here is a brief breakdown of what I say to them. This is also my opinion and it's the "safest" route, rather then maybe the most direct route, which I've seen backfire pretty badly. This route is so safe, it really can't backfire, there are too many checks and balances in place.

Go to a 2 year college (or 4 year school, but get it finished in 2 years), but get a degree in something worthwhile and minor in filmmaking. I always suggest something related to business because filmmaking IS A BUSINESS, the "creative" part of it is VERY small and is actually kinda easy compared to everything else you do. This means you don't need a prestigious degree, pretty much any college that supports what she's looking for would suffice. After you graduate college, get a job, earn money and start learning how to be a cinematographer on your own. With a good job and a life, you can easily afford some basic equipment and shoot stuff on the weekends. If you get the right kind of job, maybe something in the industry related to business, you can use those connections when you're ready to break into the industry. I can't tell you how important it is to live away from home and have a good job BEFORE you get swallowed up in the film industry. It's so important to have a "backup" plan incase the whole industry thing falls through, which by the way... for MOST PEOPLE it doesn't pan out and you've got failed filmmakers working at every restaurant in town, I kid you not. With a solid degree and a foundation to build from PRIOR to becoming a filmmaker full-time, she can make serious money if things fall apart.

 

A lot of people think the entertainment industry is this glamorous thing, but it really isn't. It's cutthroat and there really aren't many regular "jobs" shooting, writing or directing, especially for younger people. The industry is one based on freelance and even if you're super talented, you may not be able to deal with the 18 hour days, you may not be a people person, so you find it hard making connections and getting work through normal channels. The other thing is financial insecurity, a lot of people can't deal with it, literally they go bonkers when they're broke, destitute and by themselves eating roman noodles for every meal. All of the friends I moved here with, got full-time desk jobs, leaving their "filmmaking" dreams behind them, which was sad to see.

 

In terms of location, if she can go to school locally and then try to intern somewhere industry related, especially a camera rental house or something she'll get experience using cameras, then that's probably the best option. I do think you need to start young and be dedicated, but I also think you've gotta be very open to taking on new challenges and learning new things. The only reason I've been able to survive all these years in Hollywood is because I do other things outside of cinematography. Most of the time I actually edit and color these days because those jobs are more frequent and are easier to get.

 

Finally I watched your daughters work and I saw some good creative things, but some of my kids would blow your mind away. As a trained cinematographer, as someone whose been working in the industry for 25 years, I'm still shocked when I see the work my kids produce, they look and feel like professional productions. They watch my work in amazement, but I watch theirs and say to myself.... poop I wasn't nearly that good in high school. Plus, since most of their parents work in the industry, every year another dozen of them come back from college and immediately get onto big shows thanks to their parents. So it's really an "unfair" world and every single day it becomes harder for people to break in. I don't mean to get you down, but that's the life of this industry.

 

Ok enough from me! Hope that helps a tiny bit!

[Glenn Batson]

Thanks Tyler. My thoughts on college have been Anna is a smart girl. Taking time off to pursue her dream should not take away from her ability to go back to school if film is not working out. I have a son I could not say that about. Thing is I'm also thinking about myself and the student loans. Thing is I'm middle class but i make enough that the government says I have to take on most of the student loans than my daughter. She got some scholarships but not a lot. Another example with my oldest daughter is she went route of being a teacher. Great profession and is is born for it but not any money. So even though the minimal loans she got in her name she can get forgiven eventually due to her profession the ones I have for her can't be forgiven. Sore point. To try and alleviate later burden she is living at home and being a teacher in a small town near us putting all her earnings to the loans as fast as possible. Back to Anna she is smart though and ideally if she goes back to school then she gets the loans not me. I've got retirement to think about in about 15 years. Oh well enough babbling. Those is my thoughts on college. She goes back if her film pursuits don't pan out. She gets the loans and can pay them back with a regular non-film full-time job.

 

Also thanks for watching her films and the nice comment. I definitely am getting a feel for what the industry is like and know it is going to be a long haul with a lot of luck. We are here to support her. I just want to make sure what I'm saying is steering her in the right direction.

[Tyler Purcell]

Taking time off to pursue her dream should not take away from her ability to go back to school if film is not working out.

Just an FYI... it can take more then a decade for a film career to take off enough where it's viable financially.

[Robin R Probyn]

She should marry a dentist or lawyer.. only half joking .. I know quite a few directors and DP,s with well paid spouses .. and it gets them through lean times.. and takes alot of pressure off them.. scratch a bit and you'll find alot of film/tv industry people like this..

unfortunately lm not one of them..

[Max Field]

With that said I feel my daughter is very motivated to make it in the industry. While in AVP for 3 years she also took a big load at school but that didn't keep her from shooting at every opportunity. Many nights were spent catching up on school work because she spent her full weekend shooting or doing other jobs for AVP classmates. She loves it.

What I'm saying is, see how she takes it when those classes aren't holding her back from work relevant to her career path.

 

We're fed the idea film school is the ringer of education but the reality is many people here have done more film work in 6 months than a 4 year degree could ever put an individual through. Deadlines and expectations are way too easy. In film school they won't flatout tell you something you did sucked/was boring/etc, because they still want your money.

[Max Field]

Also don't buy into "filmschool makes your creativity and knowledge far more well-rounded". No class can teach an artist to be interesting.

 

A parent wouldn't want to hear this, but recovering from living homeless with a heroin addiction will provided a far more interesting life experience for creative work than advanced Shakespeare analysis in the comfort of a lecture hall. My examples are extreme, but only to paint the picture via text.

[Mark Kenfield]

I'll throw in another vote for skipping film school and putting those same funds into time volunteering on shoots, networking and building up contacts and experience (which are the elements that really matter).

I haven't the foggiest idea where my Bachelor's degree is at this stage, that piece of paper might have been thrown out years ago for all I know, it's never once been asked for, and has never once provided any tangible benefit to my career (if you can call it that!).

There's really only two paths open to your daughter, one is to start at the bottom of the camera or lighting crew and work her way up (which I think is probably the best way to learn). The other is simply start shooting crappy little projects, and then slowly work her way up to slightly less crappy projects, and after many years (possibly) onto projects that aren't crappy at all (or are only a little crappy).

Either way, empirically, it does look like both paths tend to take roughly ten years to bring a person to the point where they can make a self-sustaining living just from shooting.

[Michael LaVoie]

The path to success in entertainment for anyone behind the camera is not that different than it is in front of camera. Talent and determination are required but opportunity is not at all guaranteed.

 

Much of it is timing as well as the success of the films you do end up working on. Both of which are out of your hands completely. As an actor, sound recordist, HMU, whatever. Doesn't matter the job. In entertainment, it's your network that will get you the next job or the cataclysmic success of the film you just worked on (four - 6 months or a year ago).

 

So given that, the only guaranteed method to keep working in the industry is to produce. Cause it's the only avenue where you actually create opportunity for yourself rather than wait for it. Tell her to study producing and development. It may seem like starting a publishing house so that you can write but hey...worked for Henry Rollins, literally.

[Bruce Greene]

Glenn,

 

I'm a cinematographer, and father of an adult daughter. I'll try to keep this short:)

 

1. Your daughter should be posting these questions and not you. It's a tough business. She needs to be brave enough to push for her own success. I know you mean well.

 

2. I went to college and majored in Economics, and now I'm a cinematographer. Film school is not necessary, but practice making films is. These days anyone with a laptop and an iPhone make make all the movies they want without a film school.

 

I think the most important part of a college education is challenging oneself and learning the determination and discipline to complete the challenge.

 

3. My daughter went to college and majored in English Literature. She had no plans for a hollywood career. But now she's a writer/producer of TV series promo commercials at a major TV network. She fought her way up from the very very bottom. Let me tell you, don't let anyone tell you that English writing skills are not in demand in the workplace!

 

4. What you can do for your daughter is support her in whatever directions she wants to take herself. Who knows what she'll decide in the next few years. But you can't and should not try to direct her career.

 

You can steer your daughter to these pages if you'd like, and she can post here herself. The movie industry is brutal for shy people. I know from experience. I have been fighting shyness for 60 years now...

 

One last thought: Despite what anyone tells you or your daughter, success in cinematography is certainly possible. Someone has to shoot all these movies and tv series! Why not your daughter? Career success is easy for some and very difficult for others. Most aspiring filmmakers quit. That's just the way it is, but it does not mean it's impossible. There are a thousand different routes to a film career. Your daughter might add the 1001st!

 

Best wishes to your daughter and good luck!

[Glenn Batson]

Bruce thanks for an direct post. Whether you'll still agree or not here are my responses.

 

1. This research is for my wife and I and not my daughter. Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining that. I do find it hard to not interject myself into the process and hold back where necessary. The problem is I have a vested interest. I don't know when your daughter went through school but it is very expensive these days. The majority of the loans are the responsibility of the parent and not the child. Also I've already made a mistake with my older daughter by not involving myself in the process/decisions that involve my financial responsibility. I'm now paying $800 for 10 years for a daughter who is now an elementary teacher. It is a long story and I will not go into it. Just trust me becoming an informed parent is necessary. So with Anna I will be in the same spot regarding loans. So I'm trying to make an informed decision. Yeah I could just say your 18, goodbye, your own your own, but that is not me. I do expect my daughter to do all the work related to her career and she has so far. The thing is for this year we made the decision as a family that she will go to UTSA for the year and during that time priority one is to make the best grades possible but second is to find every way to continue her pursuit of film making. She will be responsible for her research, networking, etc. I will try to give her solid advice based on what i know. Well I guess that is all. I realize you made the comment in good faith wanting to help. I will take what you said to heart.

 

2. My daughter has been making films for the past three years now (I hope you got a chance to look at some of them) and at the same time managing a grueling class schedule of AP classes. I think she has the drive and only time will tell. That is her end of it. Again my end was to see financially am I going to be better off working with her dropping out of school and getting a head start while I support her in that endeavor or get in debt for her to finish school and then still likely have to help her because as it is evident it is a grueling and tough business. Note nothing I've heard so far from all the posts is anything I haven't found on my own reading sites, listening to podcasts, etc. It is good to hear what I've read validated and based on a background of my daughters experience. My one concern is people didn't have time to actually look at her work but I will take what I can.

 

3. Actually we thought Anna would be a writer. Growing up she was an avid reader and her mom would run across little stories in her room that she had written. At the time they were not 10 year old writing level. English was her best class in school and she took AP classes for all of English. When she quiet basketball she almost went the route of school paper because she was courted heavily by the teacher over it. So I think that will serve her well in what she wants to do in any career. So I'm in agreement on your writing comment. As you can tell, I suffer from being poor at it. I hate I wasn't a reader.

 

4. I hope I've been open that I'm very willing to support my daughter and her endeavor. I'm excited for her. Just when it comes to my money and my future I'm going need to be involved a bit more. She doesn't have a blank check.

 

Finally again thanks for the honest post. As a parent yourself, you have great perspective. Oh and when she runs across your path for work don't hold this against her ;)

 

Dad

[Glenn Batson]

On a funny note, one thing I've learned is as many have said film making is not glamorous as everyone would like to think. So when when my conservative bible belt friends and family down here in Texas complain about the liberal film industry and how easy they got it, I'll make sure to correct them. Luckily I became friends growing up with the son of a gentleman by the name of John Henry Faulk and got dual dose of liberalism and conservationism. I'm somewhere in between but more left leaning.

 

Thanks everyone for the input. Again I love it when people who are in a trade want to give back.

[Bruce Greene]

Bruce thanks for an direct post. Whether you'll still agree or not here are my responses.

 

1. This research is for my wife and I and not my daughter. Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining that. I do find it hard to not interject myself into the process and hold back where necessary. The problem is I have a vested interest. I don't know when your daughter went through school but it is very expensive these days. The majority of the loans are the responsibility of the parent and not the child. Also I've already made a mistake with my older daughter by not involving myself in the process/decisions that involve my financial responsibility. I'm now paying $800 for 10 years for a daughter who is now an elementary teacher. It is a long story and I will not go into it. Just trust me becoming an informed parent is necessary. So with Anna I will be in the same spot regarding loans. So I'm trying to make an informed decision. Yeah I could just say your 18, goodbye, your own your own, but that is not me. I do expect my daughter to do all the work related to her career and she has so far. The thing is for this year we made the decision as a family that she will go to UTSA for the year and during that time priority one is to make the best grades possible but second is to find every way to continue her pursuit of film making. She will be responsible for her research, networking, etc. I will try to give her solid advice based on what i know. Well I guess that is all. I realize you made the comment in good faith wanting to help. I will take what you said to heart.

 

2. My daughter has been making films for the past three years now (I hope you got a chance to look at some of them) and at the same time managing a grueling class schedule of AP classes. I think she has the drive and only time will tell. That is her end of it. Again my end was to see financially am I going to be better off working with her dropping out of school and getting a head start while I support her in that endeavor or get in debt for her to finish school and then still likely have to help her because as it is evident it is a grueling and tough business. Note nothing I've heard so far from all the posts is anything I haven't found on my own reading sites, listening to podcasts, etc. It is good to hear what I've read validated and based on a background of my daughters experience. My one concern is people didn't have time to actually look at her work but I will take what I can.

 

3. Actually we thought Anna would be a writer. Growing up she was an avid reader and her mom would run across little stories in her room that she had written. At the time they were not 10 year old writing level. English was her best class in school and she took AP classes for all of English. When she quiet basketball she almost went the route of school paper because she was courted heavily by the teacher over it. So I think that will serve her well in what she wants to do in any career. So I'm in agreement on your writing comment. As you can tell, I suffer from being poor at it. I hate I wasn't a reader.

 

4. I hope I've been open that I'm very willing to support my daughter and her endeavor. I'm excited for her. Just when it comes to my money and my future I'm going need to be involved a bit more. She doesn't have a blank check.

 

Finally again thanks for the honest post. As a parent yourself, you have great perspective. Oh and when she runs across your path for work don't hold this against her ;)

 

Dad

Glenn,

I appreciate your financial perspective. I was lucky that I did not need to pay for college for myself, but, I guess I made up for that by paying for my daughter's college education. In California, even a state university will cost over $100,000 for a student not living at home. It's a lot of money. 2 years of community college + a transfer to 2 years at the university can cut that just about in half though.

 

While I've never used my degree for professional reasons, I'm sure that for my daughter, having a BA degree was certainly helpful for her getting work at a big corporation, so the loans, may in the end, be worthwhile.

 

I hope I didn't sound too harsh, but filmmaking is not a path for those without a lot of determination. But neither probably, is anything else in life.

[Glenn Batson]

I hope I didn't sound too harsh

 

No worries. I'm good and have thick skin. I work in the software industry. :) I appreciate you taking the time.

[Max Field]

2. My daughter has been making films for the past three years now (I hope you got a chance to look at some of them) and at the same time managing a grueling class schedule of AP classes.

I'd just like to address this part, because while I don't doubt your daughter could get straight A's for the rest of her life, it's important to not put too much weight into it. In my experience; high school academics are used to pat the backs of some and marginalize others.

 

If she's told "hey do this" and follows up, that's one piece of the pie. An arguably bigger piece is self-motivation or self-inspiration. High school doesn't want you to think outside the box, this industry requires it.

[Phil Rhodes]

I do wonder if she's eventually going to find this site and read all this!

[Max Field]

It'll be funny as hell

[Perry Paolantonio]

Let her finish school. There is a good chance she'll change her mind and then she's left with no secondary education and her earning ability is immediately stunted. I went to art school, for filmmaking. For 10 years after college I worked in jobs peripherally related to film (in the software industry), until starting my own company, in the post production industry. I wouldn't have been hired at my first job in the software industry (QA, testing editing software) if I didn't have a degree -- even though it had almost nothing to do with the job. And that job set me on the path to owning my own company eventually.

 

She's what, 18? 17? She likely has no idea what she really wants to do, and she may very well change her mind once she's in school and gets a taste of something else. I have to be honest, it feels like you're trying to control a situation that's not controllable.

 

If money is a factor, I'd just make it clear she can't go there, and to find another school. When I was in college, we fell into the income gap where my parents income disqualified us for all the good financial aid packages, but they didn't make enough to afford more expensive schools. We talked about it and I agreed to go to an inexpensive state school in Vermont (where we lived). I was there for a year and a half and then decided I wanted to do film, and found an inexpensive school in Boston to transfer to. I graduated without much debt, and was done paying off my loans within 8 years.

 

As long as she's not going to a for-profit school, just about any college will be fine on a resume. Steer her towards schools that you can afford, and away from crushing student loans. The education is important because her salary level will automatically be higher out of the gate, but it's not worth it if you're $120k in debt when you leave school. So it's a balancing act - find a school that's affordable, in a place she wants to be, and is going to get her a good education.

 

Just a suggestion: Film school is probably a waste of time and money. At least, the kind of film school that's designed to get you into the film industry. If she wants to be a cinematographer, learning photography (still photography) is huge. I know a lot of former and current film students and I can say pretty confidently that the ones who do the nicest work are not the ones in a formal film school - they're the ones at art schools, or with a photo background, because they're concentrating more on the images they're making than on the trappings of "the biz".

 

In an art school setting, even though I didn't really have a ton of interest in making experimental film, I saw films that I would *never* have seen in a traditional film school. Anyone can go out and rent or buy all the classic films you'd see in film school (we did). But you're never even going to know about the other stuff out there, which can have a huge effect on how you see the world and how you choose to frame an image.

 

It's worth coming at this industry from the side, in my opinion - learn to make really stunning images. Learn the nuts and bolts of how film works (it'll instill a sense of discipline one doesn't always get starting in digital). Learn how lenses work, and how light affects an image. If you do this at an art school, or as a photographer, then learn how to use cinema equipment later or on your own in parallel (which isn't a huge leap if you understand photography), you have a built-in advantage when building a portfolio or reel.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Perry Paolantonio

[Glenn Batson]

I do wonder if she's eventually going to find this site and read all this!

Be pissed at here dad but she'll have to get over it.