Premium Member Aapo Lettinen Posted April 10, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted April 10, 2022 Making a million different threads would probably not make the information any more accessible. For service techs list one would need a pinned thread under the "Eclair" category and the pinned thread only concentrated on having a up to date list of the service techs available now. It needs to be pinned for people to find it. Any kind of technical information can be on other threads like this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 aapo, How do I pin a thread? Do I ask Tim Tyler? Before or after I make the thread? I'll sniff around in case the means are visible. Are pinned threads updateable? Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 Could @Tim Tyler help us with this issue? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted April 10, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted April 10, 2022 Re. oillite bearings. These are typical of the years from 1958 up in camera mechanisms, the sell-and-forget mentality. A movie camera differs from household apparatus in that it must work in the cold as well as in the heat, more like a car. Do we have oillite bearings with cars? Not in the crucial places I’d try to install a felt wick oil system, if a customer wants it. A felt lining of the surrounding area would swallow excessive oil. Two or three bores would need to be made to some parts as oil inlets. The alternative is service at regular intervals. The main problem of camera maintenance TODAY is that the cams only rarely see dozens and dozens of rolls run through them. In my experience those who scream the loudest for perfect lubrication expose three hundred-footers, then stop filming. As important as the lubrication of shafts in plain bearings is that of gears. Most camera manufacturers have never spent a thought to how gears could be well smeared. Often burrs are present on the tooth flanks prohibiting a good oil trail. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 12 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said: ...summary list of techs and what they do.....start a new list, and on that one, only have the research on who, where and what they do, and a clear summarized list. ... Busy for a day or two so will get to that one as I can, and will ponder whether one should. A pinned list sounds great, but we need to be updating it and include any research so that anyone can help. I have seen forums where they use pinning very effectively as a way to make ad hoc directories for the many useful threads they can't afford to loose. Seeking an orderly construction of thread topics/ subject matter we are fighting human nature and the gods it seems...witness the post above on sintered bush lubrication by the normally uber orderly Simon Wys, landing here rather than in a thread started explicitly just for that.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I thought I would work on the tech list while I had a moment, post it as a loud update on Heikki's existing thread, then figure out the pinning etc later. Probably we need a pinned thread that we use just to list a directory of important threads. That pinned thread needs to be updatable, perhaps just by fresh posts, but that may need to be done by a moderator etc. I may ask Tim Tyler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) Tim made me a moderator in the Eclair sub-forum so it should be possible to correct errors in the techs list and make it easy to find.... I planed to make one or more pinned threads that will serve only as directories, containing links to important info on other threads. Or potentially, links to important info external to the forum. Those pinned "directories" could be open or locked (I don't know it all yet). If open, people could include additional links in the content of subsequent posts. They would need to be fairly disciplined about what they add, or we will loose the simplicity I'm hoping for. Any suggestions on these ideas? Gregg. Email: viz(at)xtra.co.nz Telefunk: sixtyfour274 377 086 PS: I can edit any posts from this point on, but the corrections to the techs list I may have to do by replicating it, editing that, and hiding the old version. So don't be alarmed if that disappears Edited April 13, 2022 by Gregg MacPherson added info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Technicians who service Eclair ACLs...Summary. Short List of Camera Techs for ACL Criteria.... - Expertise as camera techs with Arri/Aaton etc, CLA, repair/rebuild, collimation. - Have some expertise/experience with ACLs. - Confirmed they will accept work on ACLs. UK and Europe Les Bosher ..South Wales, UK. S16 ACL conversions, servicing, custom rod sets, accessories, PL/TS-1 mount adapters for ACL, custom lens mounts. Les' S16 ACL conversions have less features/elements, no ground glass re-etch, but are cheaper. A small boutique business, he and his son. Be patient with contact and turnaround time. Excellent design and machine shop skills on the parts I have seen (Gregg). USA Visual Products...Ohio Paul Scaglione....(drops in to the forum occasionally) S16 ACL conversions, servicing, rebuilds. Paul's S16 conversions are fully featured, including re-etched S16 ground glass. VP is a well established business with a volume of Arri/Aaton work taking priority. Talk or PM with Paul. Be patient on the turnaround time, especially if the job needs a ground glass re-etch (piece work by SHURCO). Alan Gordon Enterprises...LA They used to advertise expertise in ACL and parts. The website advertises service for all film cameras. If someone is in LA can they clarify this. Get the names of any techs there who've worked on ACL. Du-All Camera...NY Service/overhaul of ACL. Website gives good detail on all the cameras they service, including NPR, and prices. Australasia Dom Jaeger...now working as a lens technician at Panavision Melbourne..(a regular on the forum) His expertise is in Arriflex, Movicam and Bolex, but he has worked on many other cameras over the years, including a few Aatons and Eclairs. Things like flange depth, ground glass focus, checking general function and fault-finding mechanical issues, he can help. If we can find good service documents he might consider overhauls, noise reduction, electrical faults (Gregg thinks). I think Dom is quite busy at Panavision, but likes to help, and loves the film cameras. List of Potential Camera Techs for ACL These guys have skills but may not tick all the boxes, or may need further research, or just encouragement. Feel free to do that and report back so we can update. Try not to over tax their patience, especially if they are on the fence, undecided. UK and Europe (potentials) Thanks Heikki, most of these are your discoveries... Simon Wyss...Switzerland...(regular on the forum) Experienced and adaptable with lots of different cameras. Interested in working on ACLs (not on S16 converted ones), but hasn't much familiarity yet. Has repaired an ACL motor but I don't know the details. Boris Belay...Brussels, Belgium...(occasionally on the forum) A real expert on Eclair who has serviced his own ACLs and (I think), also his friends cameras. I don't know if he has professional experience or if he will accept ACL service jobs... Christophe Goulard...Paris. Involved with Re-Voir and L'Abominables. He serviced the ACL 1.5 recently advertised by Steven Jackson on the forum. Heikki reports that he has previously made replacement electronics for the ACL motor. He does not have a formal business, or means of easy contact, so some care is needed in the research. Someone who lives near Paris perhaps, who can make contact personally. Daniil Nevskij...Sweden/Finland Heikki.."(He) modifies Arriflex cameras to 2-perf and services a range of Arriflex cameras for rental houses has told to me that he has previous experience with ACLs (and owns one) but that he doesn't like them because they are "too French". No idea, if he can be asked to service them. Anyway, he's a real wizard. Was previously located in Russia, but now in the Sweden-Finland -axis." https://instagram.com/kamera_doctor?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= Georg Bogner...Germany Heikki..."I asked him about servicing my mags in 2020 and he told me doesn't work on them anymore due to retirement. Germany." http://cameraservice-bogner.de/ Retired guys should not be written off... they sometimes will do it, and their overheads are low... Duncan's Russian ACL motor expert (sorry, I lost the name) Duncan found this chap. He's previously made all new electronics for the latest model ACL motor. Nothing about that on his web pages, just lots of other film camera motor mods. I don't know how well set up he is to take jobs or enquiries. English skills unknown. Google translate worked for me on his web pages. Excuse the nude picture in the top left. Duncan thought there might be a restriction on access to this page, but it opened for me.. http://pouch.narod.ru/ USA (potentials) Conci Nelson... Heikki..."Conci is not a full time technician but has been trained by Bernie (S16 Inc) and is very good with rebuilding ACL magazines" Evan Ferrario ...LA Heikki..."Evan is not a full time technician but does maintenance on the side" Tony...AWcinema....LA?..not sure He posted some ACL camera body tear down videos on Youtube. I didn't agree with everything he said, but he's a very interesting and accessible guy..This contact data may be out of date...323-717-5775 or e mail...at awphoto67@yahoo.com There were originally 3 videos that covered the opening, movement block removal and shutter replacement. On short notice I just found these. So rummage, find and report back please for the update. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxtOkldh9M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an2E3eHYrMs I think I tracked Tony down later, he might have been a drone operator/service specialist. Last point re finding technicians.. Please help find technicians familiar with ACL. You can PM me or Heikki if you need to. You have to keep an open mind. Opportunities come up....for example...maybe five years ago, there were two really skilled techs at Panavision Auckland who might have started looking at ACLs if they had the right nudge. I don't think they are still at Auckland. There was also a tech there who was familiar with repair on ACL electronics... Re updates and errors Please post updates and errors on this thread for now. I will set up a pinned thread, as a directory, with links pointing to useful info like this list. Contact me also by PM and email/phone. Cheers, Gregg. Email: viz(at)xtra.co.nz Telefunk: sixtyfour274 377 086 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Potential Camera Techs for ACL Graham Jones...Lemac, Sydney was on the original potentials list but was taken off... I emailed Graham and he replied that he did not service or repair ACL. The last one he saw was 20 years ago. He had no parts or drawings. I offered him the parts drawings (of course)? Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Zrike Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 Do you know for sure that Les Bosher still makes mount adapters for the ACL? I’d love to get ones for EF and Leica M (I have his PL mount), but I’ve tried contacting him so many times over the last six months with no response (phone and email). Has anyone else had better luck? I also intend to try pursuing Du-All to see if they could do collimation. They’ve never answered my various emails (haven’t tried calling yet). What’s with these repair places not answer emails? Lol. New Jersey is a lot more convenient than Ohio for me (I’m in NY), so I’m crossing my fingers for Du-All, but I’m also thinking about just going out to Visual Products, dropping my camera off, and then maybe visiting some family in Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share Posted April 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Raymond Zrike said: Do you know for sure that Les Bosher still makes mount adapters for the ACL? I’d love to get ones for EF and Leica M (I have his PL mount), but I’ve tried contacting him so many times over the last six months with no response (phone and email). Has anyone else had better luck? He does. A friend of mine had him make an EF adapter in 2020, but it took months. Being able to contact Les is a matter of timing and luck. I asked him about an ACL S16 conversion in February and got very prompt responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Zrike Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 That’s good to hear. I’ll just pepper him with emails and calls every so often and will hopefully get a response at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Zrike Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) Just talked to Du-All. He’s hesitant to take on another ACL (says that he has one that he’s working on that’s been sitting on his desk for a while) because of the lack of parts/support. But since my camera is in pretty great condition already and really just needs to have the mount put back in spec and that sort of thing, he said I could drop in sometime and he’ll check it out. So I don’t think he’ll be working on ACL motors or anything super complicated like that anytime soon, but a general check-up is a possibility. He also wasn’t aware of anybody in the US who services ACLs. I mentioned Visual Products, and he said that Du-All was actually who trained them on servicing ACLs back in the day (he is unaware of if they still service them). Also mentioned that I think the previous owner had Super 16 Inc service my camera a few years ago, and he acted like that was bad news ? . I guess Bernie started making mistakes toward the end? Or maybe just a bit of a repairman rivalry. Not sure. On 4/13/2022 at 5:10 PM, Gregg MacPherson said: I offered him the parts drawings (of course)? Anything I should bring with me besides the camera? What’s the parts drawing? Edited April 19, 2022 by Raymond Zrike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share Posted April 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Raymond Zrike said: Also mentioned that I think the previous owner had Super 16 Inc service my camera a few years ago, and he acted like that was bad news ? . I guess Bernie started making mistakes toward the end? Or maybe just a bit of a repairman rivalry. Not sure. I haven't really heard anything bad about Bernie's work. Bernie was also one of the ACL techs who was trained by Eclair. That being said, in the end everyone has their own way of doing things and then there are the human chemistry issues. Not everyone can stand everyone, unfortunately. Furthermore, as everyone makes a mistake every now and then and the tech circles are small, one can guess that those who are in the business are bound to have to fix each others' mistakes (when not fixing the mistakes they themselves have made!). I really wouldn't dwell on those sentiments too much. If your camera has worked great thus far after Bernie's servicing, let those results testify for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Raymond Zrike said: Just talked to Du-All. He’s hesitant to take on another ACL...he said I could drop in sometime and he’ll check it out. So I don’t think he’ll be working on ACL motors...but a general check-up is a possibility. He also wasn’t aware of anybody in the US who services ACLs. ... Also mentioned that I think the previous owner had Super 16 Inc service my camera a few years ago, and he acted like that was bad news ? .... Anything I should bring with me besides the camera? What’s the parts drawing? Hey Raymond, You bring up some important ideas and things to clarify... Many, maybe most of these camera techs are busy and keeping up with correspondence takes time. So I think we need to be patient and strateigic in how we try to communicate with them. Be imediately clear on what you want from them. Limit the number of emails or calls, be super organized, write well, be breif unless they invite detail. And then, as Heikki says, there's timing and luck.... And then, Gregg says, our own particular experience may be misinterpreted as a general principal.... The DU-ALL info I just took from their website. I think, just like Paul at Visual Products (VP), parts could cause serious delay in an overhaul that brought up some repairs. Raymond, if you know or find out the name(s) of the tech(s) at DU-ALL actually doing the work on Eclairs can you let us know, we will update our list. There's only one guy in the states that we know works on the ACL motor electronics, Andrew at AZSpectrum. If DU-ALL used to service motors this would be useful to know. Paul at VP confirmed on 25th/March/2022 that "Both (he) and Andrzej at AZ-Spectrum will work on Eclair bits up to & including conversions however (it will) always come behind equipment sales and can unfortunately sit on the shelf for months before completion." I pasted a summary here...scroll about half way down...https://cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/topic/87469-technicians-who-service-eclair-acls/page/2/#comments It's perplexing how DU-ALL might be unaware of Paul at VP. Maybe Heikki's right again...competitive feelings or giggery pokery between repair houses. Ditto for the Bernie thing. I've had chats with a client of plural techs who extoled one and derided another, then a kind of reverse story from someone else. The parts drawings are super useful for camera service techs. There are links to them in one of the pinned threads on the Eclair sub-form. DU-AlL will have them, unless they don't need them. Point him to the link. Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Zrike Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said: Limit the number of emails or calls, I agree in general, but I don’t think anybody is going to get in contact with Les unless you keep trying to contact him repeatedly over time. Du-All picked up the phone immediately when I called—which I respect! I definitely should have gotten his name. I believe he mentioned he was the son of the guy who started the place, so maybe that’s helpful. 4 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said: Both (he) and Andrzej at AZ-Spectrum will work on Eclair bits up to & including conversions however (it will) always come behind equipment sales and can unfortunately sit on the shelf for months before completion." That’s essentially what Du-All told me also. Very reluctant to work on an ACL given other obligations. But I just consistently said the check-up probably wouldn’t be too complicated since the camera is already in good shape, and he seemed more open to that. I think another key thing to say is that you’re fine with hitting a dead end if it requires a part that doesn’t exist. He seemed worried that he’d hit a roadblock regarding parts availability and then I wouldn’t pay him for his time. I essentially assured him that wasn’t the case (and that my camera wouldn’t likely need any parts). Probably best to have a donor for-parts camera with you to really do it right though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 4 hours ago, Raymond Zrike said: ...That’s essentially what Du-All told me also. Very reluctant to work on an ACL given other obligations.... Just to be clear, I never got a sense of reluctance from Paul. I think he likes ACLs and likes working on them. But he works for VP, and they make more money selling and servicing Arri/Aaton, so he has to follow that theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted May 18, 2022 Author Share Posted May 18, 2022 On 4/8/2022 at 1:15 PM, Gregg MacPherson said: Re the aged lubricants issue in the sintered bushes, I'm not sure what that shaft/bush would feel like to the fingers. My guess is that aged original oil could feel free. Aged oil from over oiling might have friction. I went through old posts on these forums, and found this message by Bernie: Quote Also, the motor should have no problem pulling a 400' load. The thing that generally prevents the motor from pulling a 400' load is that the camera mechanism is too tight or the mags need servicing. Eclair installed "self-lubricating" bearings in all of their cameras, which theoretically should never need to be lubed, but that just ain't so. They dry out rather quickly and do require attention at least once every two or three years. Now then, Bernie used to tell many of his customers that their ACLs were "bone dry". I'm pretty certain Bernie didn't fully disassemble those ACLs, so that would mean he lubed them in some other way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 22, 2022 Share Posted May 22, 2022 (edited) Heikki...Thursday at 10:08 AM "Now then, Bernie used to tell many of his customers that their ACLs were "bone dry". I'm pretty certain Bernie didn't fully disassemble those ACLs, so that would mean he lubed them in some other way...." We can't ask Bernie now about this, but maybe he talked to someone about it. It would be useful to know what exact lubrication practices the different technicians had for these cameras. My guess is that inappropriate protocols exercised by an otherwise well qualified tech may be just as harmful as when exercised by the inexperienced. If we are lost without adequate knowledge, I don't think it gives a blanket reassurance that overlubricating or using inappropriate lubricants is OK. Quite the opposite. Retired techs who have worked on the cameras may share some thoughts. Opinions may vary. This may be a tough knot to untangle. Edited May 22, 2022 by Gregg MacPherson formatting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said: Retired techs who have worked on the cameras may share some thoughts. Opinions may vary. This may be a tough knot to untangle. Agreed. I really think we should ask about this as many different ACL servicing techs, current and retired, as possible. Current ones to ask: - Les Bosher - Visual Products - Du-All Retired ones who have worked on ACLs: - Bob Allen (there are California phone numbers floating around online) - he worked many years on Eclairs at Optical Electro House - Man-Sung Son from Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted May 22, 2022 Author Share Posted May 22, 2022 I have sent a question on this matter to Man-Sung's email address. Anyone in California or US who would like call Bob Allen? @Gregg MacPherson could you ask VP? I'd say this is not a matter of competition but rather of preserving knowledge, also considering the fact that their bread and butter comes from Arris and Aatons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 25, 2022 Share Posted May 25, 2022 Re the lubrication of the sintered bushes, I did ask Paul Scaglione at VP and he gave some good info. It's on the Eclair ACL, Sintered Bronze Bushes thread... https://cinematography.com/index.php?/forums/topic/91741-eclair-acl-sintered-bronze-bushes-lubrication/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gautam Valluri Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 4/13/2022 at 10:57 PM, Gregg MacPherson said: Christophe Goulard...Paris. Involved with Re-Voir and L'Abominables. He serviced the ACL 1.5 recently advertised by Steven Jackson on the forum. Heikki reports that he has previously made replacement electronics for the ACL motor. He does not have a formal business, or means of easy contact, so some care is needed in the research. Someone who lives near Paris perhaps, who can make contact personally. I'm deeply saddened to announce the passing of Christophe Goulard yesterday. I cannot begin to explain how important he was to us in the French analog film circles. He was not just a technician / restorer of cameras, he invented incredible tools and gave life to old machines by adapting them to modern usage. L'Abominable, Re:voir, Etna and all the small artist-run labs in France were enriched by his vast knowledge and technical expertise. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now