Logmar.dk is now accepting preorders for their new precision Super 8 camera called Gentoo GS8

[Doug Palmer]

The mag sound track also gave more protection due to the 'rail' effect, so there was less friction between layers of film.

Regarding 'bad projectors' I haven't found many that give shaky images. The gates etc are certainly far better than the cameras' movement.  Lenses though were generally inferior, so yes detail was lost for sure.

[Tyler Purcell]

Yea I've never had a super 8 projector that works well. The scans we have of our super 8 stuff from the 80's and 90's always looks great. 

I agree tho, worn out cameras do play a big role. 

[Doug Palmer]

12 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Yea I've never had a super 8 projector that works well. The scans we have of our super 8 stuff from the 80's and 90's always looks great. 

I agree tho, worn out cameras do play a big role. 

Strange, our experiences differ.  Most S8 projectors I encounter work OK mechanically after all these years, excepting the usual broken belts etc.

The cheap S8 cameras back then weren't meant to last very long maybe.  Kodak could already see video coming ?  Having said that, some like the Kodak Instamatics, were quite well made and still work OK today.  Did you ever see Cinerama that some enthusiasts  created with 3 cheapo Kodaks linked together?  I remember Chris Usher's UK presentations and being astonished how the film images welded together so well.  Silent cartridges and stable.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Doug Palmer
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[Tyler Purcell]

8 hours ago, Doug Palmer said:

Strange, our experiences differ.  Most S8 projectors I encounter work OK mechanically after all these years, excepting the usual broken belts etc.

Depends on your definition on what is good and what is not. I have 3 re-built Elmo projectors, one of them is an ST1200 which is the "commercial" version and it's very clean and hardly used. I also bought one projector/camera kit brand new in 1987, so it's not like I haven't seen what they look like new. 

I actually as a kid, had a 16mm projector at the same time as a Super 8 system, so maybe I was spoiled, but my 1960's Kodak Pageant projector to this day is rock steady compared to ANY super 8 system I've owned. When I scanned my Super 8 movies from that period recently, I was flabbergasted to see how stable and clean they were compared to what I was seeing through my projection system all those years. 

I just think people don't notice gate weave  and film plane focus issues very much, I have friends who show me things I can't even look at they're so bad and claim they're "stable" and I'm like... umm, not on my planet. 

[Doug Palmer]

On 6/23/2022 at 5:57 PM, Tyler Purcell said:

Depends on your definition on what is good and what is not. I have 3 re-built Elmo projectors, one of them is an ST1200 which is the "commercial" version and it's very clean and hardly used. I also bought one projector/camera kit brand new in 1987, so it's not like I haven't seen what they look like new. 

I actually as a kid, had a 16mm projector at the same time as a Super 8 system, so maybe I was spoiled, but my 1960's Kodak Pageant projector to this day is rock steady compared to ANY super 8 system I've owned. When I scanned my Super 8 movies from that period recently, I was flabbergasted to see how stable and clean they were compared to what I was seeing through my projection system all those years. 

I just think people don't notice gate weave  and film plane focus issues very much, I have friends who show me things I can't even look at they're so bad and claim they're "stable" and I'm like... umm, not on my planet. 

I good S8 projector though,  like eg your Elmos, should surely be as stable as a normal 16mm projector?  The gate and claw arrangement is similar in many ways, but obviously you are magnifying any discrepancy much more on the screen.  The Elmo lenses also very good performers, especially when stopped down a little.

[Tyler Purcell]

8 hours ago, Doug Palmer said:

I good S8 projector though,  like eg your Elmos, should surely be as stable as a normal 16mm projector?  The gate and claw arrangement is similar in many ways, but obviously you are magnifying any discrepancy much more on the screen.  The Elmo lenses also very good performers, especially when stopped down a little.

Exactly, you're magnifying discrepancy. Most of that comes from the camera actually, as super 8 cameras really suck and pre-made prints generally are also poorly made. So you're not just seeing projector issues, but issues within all the sources played on said projector. 16mm has much less of those problems. 

[Niels kakelveld]

Alas, it is looking like the camera has been cancelled.

https://www.logmar.dk/gentoo-s8/

"Cancelled

The Gentoo camera platform was cancelled as it failed to obtain sufficient preorders.
We have no active plans of revisiting small format cameras for the time being."

[Robin Phillips]

really too bad. I do think if they'd done some kind of kickstarter type thing, just something to get some press about it, they could have gotten the 50 orders. By the time I'd figured out things on my end to put in an order they'd already killed it (I think cause we were all complaining that we wanted a 16mm camera at that price).

Heck someone paid like $6k or more for the original logmar s8 camera that showed up on ebay, which means there were multiple people who bid that thing up so high. I do think the market was actually there for the new one, even if a lot of forum users didnt want it. Would have been a great crash cam, camera house only rental cam for sync applications etc... Its just not enough people knew about it. 

also looks like the 16mm one is dead too. doh. Granted a $26k 100ft load only camera was always a harder sell, especially with SR1 and 2s at or below that price point right now.

Still, its a shame. Not sure if there will be anyone else who tries this again, save for a situation where Panavision builds something themselves or licenses the arri IP just to build spare parts for their 416s (which I highly doubt would ever be publicly for sale). Though I suppose one of us here on the forum could always win the lotto and just start building XTRs again lol

[Jefta Varwijk]

?

[Aapo Lettinen]

having some experience designing custom film camera accessories, I have to say that financing new designs is extremely difficult and it is so expensive to make this kind of stuff that it is almost impossible if people are not willing to preorder and pay at least some of the money beforehand. Most of the more complicated stuff cannot be made without good resources even as a hobby and really need the actual cash to be even remotely possible to finish in the first place.

Some kind of platform to collect enough preorders (and money!!) in the beginning of the project would be crucial to get it done in the first place... the issue is that one generally does not have lots of resources available for advertising at that stage and the customers hesitate to order anything "without seeing the final product first" (which cannot be seen because it cannot be made if it is not ordered and paid for first) .

that is the main issue of custom made products. The customer needs a big leap of faith to order something in early enough stage so that the designers can get the resources they need to make the actual product. By my experience, generally about 90 to 95% of my projects are cancelled because of this dilemma... people don't order something which does not exist yet because it cannot be made without it being ordered first.

In most cases people can't get any new cool products then and are stuck with the old "boring" gear forever then. That is totally fine and probably gets the actual jobs still done perfectly but all the cool new gadgets are lost then which surely makes the projects less interesting if nothing else ?