Logmar.dk is now accepting preorders for their new precision Super 8 camera called Gentoo GS8

[David Sekanina]

indeed wonderful news about the pre-orders ?

[Heikki Repo]

20 hours ago, Doug Palmer said:

That's very encouraging ?  Max8 too.  Maybe it should be considered as a 16mm camera alternative,  with fine grain film.  Look forward to see how it performs.

I think super-8 as a lightweight alternative to 16mm is one possible use case (though one shouldn't exaggerate the similarities in quality).

The following footage is not Logmar footage but instead was shot with a Max8 modified Beaulieu 4008 ZM and a Contax/Yashica Zeiss 50mm f1.7 on Vision3 50D. Scanstation 4K scan. The footage was graded, stabilized, scaled and grain reduction with high levels of sharpening was added. 

 

 

And here's the same one without sharpening:

And finally, for comparison some Vision3 200T, same specs but no sharpening:

https://youtu.be/VJpX8sCfs4U

 

In this last one it really wasn't fun to watch without stabilizing. Shot at 50 fps, there was small but distracting jitter. I don't think most of those who are after super-8 look want that. There the new Gentoo should help.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Heikki Repo

[Doug Palmer]

19 hours ago, Heikki Repo said:

I think super-8 as a lightweight alternative to 16mm is one possible use case (though one shouldn't exaggerate the similarities in quality).

The following footage is not Logmar footage but instead was shot with a Max8 modified Beaulieu 4008 ZM and a Contax/Yashica Zeiss 50mm f1.7 on Vision3 50D. Scanstation 4K scan. The footage was graded, stabilized, scaled and grain reduction with high levels of sharpening was added. 

 

 

And here's the same one without sharpening:

And finally, for comparison some Vision3 200T, same specs but no sharpening:

https://youtu.be/VJpX8sCfs4U

 

In this last one it really wasn't fun to watch without stabilizing. Shot at 50 fps, there was small but distracting jitter. I don't think most of those who are after super-8 look want that. There the new Gentoo should help.

I'm not usually in favour of sharpening movie film but on my PC I can see it helps slightly in the first example.  I've never shot with 50D in super-8.  I see it does bring out the best in the format,  if that's intended.  And the Gentoo's pin regn. will be very welcome.  Also,  the fact that it's c-mount, so can take some really nice glass including still prime lenses. 

Let's hope though something can be done to make the super-8 film cartridge more affordable for the many who'd like to shoot with it.  And it does have the advantage over 16mm of getting quick shots of faces etc, also fast changing.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Doug Palmer
add words

[Giray Izcan]

I doubt those quick shots would be matching the main format - let's say s16 or r16. For those quick shots, I would use a Bolex or a Scoopic as they are pretty compact. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Giray Izcan

[Heikki Repo]

3 hours ago, Giray Izcan said:

I doubt those quick shots would be matching the main format - let's say s16 or r16.

Right, if main format is S16 these do stand out - so that's not really what I was suggesting. But for a lightweight production that needs to move fast, that has lots of light available and for which something that's close to 16mm is enough, V3 50D in super-8 might work. One has to do the tests, obviously.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Heikki Repo

[Doug Palmer]

A quick point in favour of super-8 v 16....  there is much more depth-of-field.  So eg. in the harvesting shots from Heikki,  the foreground and background are in focus (I think) despite using a tele lens.  Although the lighting was good,  this may not have happened as well on 16mm.  That's assuming good focus near and far, was intended. 

Another use for S8 where big depth-of-field is a bonus:   foreground miniatures.  Also, because this Gentoo camera has good registration,  maybe it could be used for plate photography,  to use later in SFX shots.

[Travis Shannon]

On 5/23/2022 at 1:01 AM, Andries Molenaar said:

Here and there they may be a professional filmer with plenty budget but this is going nowhere.

Likely they are not going to sell more than from the earlier Logmar which only sold out the beta-serie and only after a long time.

BTW NATO is into setting standards for grip equipment?

 

To your last point- NATO rail was used on weapons as a standardized rail system long before it was repurposed for mounting camera accessories and camera mounting isn’t grip. So no.

[Pavan Deep]

It looks like after the cancellation of the GentooLogmar are working on simpler Super 16 camera, a hybrid between Gentoo and Rockhopper.

Pav

[Uli Meyer]

2 hours ago, Pavan Deep said:

It looks like after the cancellation of the GentooLogmar are working on simpler Super 16 camera, a hybrid between Gentoo and Rockhopper.

Pav

Hey Pav, did I miss something? Could you please elaborate?

[Pavan Deep]

There's been a lot of talk in Facebook groups that there weren't enough orders for the Super 8 camera, I emailed Logmar this morning and they confirmed that the 'Gentoo' camera has been cancelled. They said they are working on a new Super 16 camera a hybrid between Gentoo and Rockhopper,  a sound sync camera, and that they expect to launch it later this year. Other than this I have no more information, whether it will be a basic camera or one packed with features, or what kind of price will it be.

Pav

[Uli Meyer]

4 minutes ago, Pavan Deep said:

There's been a lot of talk in Facebook groups that there weren't enough orders for the Super 8 camera, I emailed Logmar this morning and they confirmed that the 'Gentoo' camera has been cancelled. They said they are working on a new Super 16 camera a hybrid between Gentoo and Rockhopper,  a sound sync camera, and that they expect to launch it later this year. Other than this I have no more information, whether it will be a basic camera or one packed with features, or what kind of price will it be.

Pav

Thank you Pav, good to know. Looking forward to finding out more about the hybrid idea. 

[Robin Phillips]

it would be nice if it effectively could fill the roll of a modernized super 16 Arri S

[David Sekanina]

I wish they would have waited longer for potential buyers, or launched a campaign on Kickstarter / Indiegogo which would give the camera more visibility. It felt like the camera was announced and cancelled within a month. Then again, my accuracy for the passing of time is more and more off, the older I get ?

[Robin Phillips]

29 minutes ago, David Sekanina said:

I wish they would have waited longer for potential buyers, or launched a campaign on Kickstarter / Indiegogo which would give the camera more visibility. It felt like the camera was announced and cancelled within a month. Then again, my accuracy for the passing of time is more and more off, the older I get ?

Agreed. given how long it seems like this was percolating it seems odd to effectively do no advertising and then cancel it. Im not sure anyone outside of this forum and two facebook groups even knew it was for sale. They didnt even have a "pre order now" button on their website

[Tyler Purcell]

I've talked to Tommy a bit, but I just don't understand what they're doing. 

You can't build a 3D printed model of a camera and sell it. 

The camera must exist. Full finished form. Working with videos showing how it works. 

You can't sell a modern camera without those things, it's just vaporware otherwise. 

[David Sekanina]

9 minutes ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I've talked to Tommy a bit, but I just don't understand what they're doing. 

You can't build a 3D printed model of a camera and sell it. 

The camera must exist. Full finished form. Working with videos showing how it works. 

You can't sell a modern camera without those things, it's just vaporware otherwise. 

Ideally yes. On the other hand they have proven they can build a S8 camera with a rock steady movement with their previous camera. Remember the Digital Bolex campaign? They had a box with a lens and some renderings and managed to get 440 backers pledging 260'000$.

Edited June 13, 2022 by David Sekanina

[Nicholas Kovats]

Logmar received 51 commitments to purchase a Gentoo camera as per subcontractor minimal order requirements. But only 24% followed through and signed contracts with a delivery date of 6-8 months. They could not afford to wait for additional signed commitments relative to the planned delivery schedule. They ultimately and honorably decided to refund the signed commitments. They will build a few for rental purposes in an attempt to recoup R/D losses. They are proceeding with their S16 camera project and are still building out more of their 65mm versions. 

I would advise the select few who are spreading misinformation and claiming falsely to have a direct connection to Logmar to cease and desist.   

[Tyler Purcell]

2 hours ago, David Sekanina said:

Ideally yes. On the other hand they have proven they can build a S8 camera with a rock steady movement with their previous camera.

Right but there are 50 examples and they sold them through resellers as finished product. 

2 hours ago, David Sekanina said:

Remember the Digital Bolex campaign? They had a box with a lens and some renderings and managed to get 440 backers pledging 260'000$.

At the time of the digital bolex, there was nothing like it on the market. They got a lot of money, but I think if you really look closely at the backing, you'll see much of it were filmmakers like Spike Lee who (probably) invested quite a bit. 

Also, in today's world, a camera like the Digital Bolex would never happen. They also were a failed company. They delivered what they were asked to by the donors, then quickly quit. So the demand wasn't that high.  

Edited June 13, 2022 by Tyler Purcell

[David Sekanina]

1 minute ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Also, in today's world, a camera like the Digital Bolex would never happen. 

That's for sure.

[Tyler Purcell]

8 hours ago, Pavan Deep said:

It looks like after the cancellation of the GentooLogmar are working on simpler Super 16 camera, a hybrid between Gentoo and Rockhopper.

I think a smaller 16mm camera would be smart. 

[David Mullen ASC]

Ultimately a large portion of the size of a film camera is the film magazine…

[Doug Palmer]

14 hours ago, Nicholas Kovats said:

Logmar received 51 commitments to purchase a Gentoo camera as per subcontractor minimal order requirements. But only 24% followed through and signed contracts with a delivery date of 6-8 months. They could not afford to wait for additional signed commitments relative to the planned delivery schedule. They ultimately and honorably decided to refund the signed commitments. They will build a few for rental purposes in an attempt to recoup R/D losses. They are proceeding with their S16 camera project and are still building out more of their 65mm versions. 

I would advise the select few who are spreading misinformation and claiming falsely to have a direct connection to Logmar to cease and desist.   

Although I wouldn't myself have been a buyer,  I'm disappointed Logmar cancelled their S8 project.  Glad though it looks as if a few may be made for rental.  Also, the 16mm camera is interesting indeed, especially if smallish.  I'm guessing hopefully it will be normal 100ft loading, with mag option.

[Uli Meyer]

1 hour ago, Doug Palmer said:

Although I wouldn't myself have been a buyer,  I'm disappointed Logmar cancelled their S8 project.  Glad though it looks as if a few may be made for rental.  Also, the 16mm camera is interesting indeed, especially if smallish.  I'm guessing hopefully it will be normal 100ft loading, with mag option.

A 200 ft mag could be interesting, one that slots in like the 416 mag. 

[David Sekanina]

2 minutes ago, Uli Meyer said:

A 200 ft mag could be interesting, one that slots in like the 416 mag. 

that makes the mags expensive, requiring a precision pressure plate, rollers and gears to keep the loop etc. That's the beauty of the Aaton A-minima - the mags are very simple.

[Uli Meyer]

10 minutes ago, David Sekanina said:

that makes the mags expensive, requiring a precision pressure plate, rollers and gears to keep the loop etc. That's the beauty of the Aaton A-minima - the mags are very simple.

I have never used a Minima but that sounds even better! ?