Samuel Berger Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 My favourite commercials ever were the Segata Sanshiro ads for the Sega Saturn. I always thought they shot it on 16mm. But thanks to youtube we can now see what was used. https://youtu.be/SoW1cIJcwkk?t=3m5s At 3 Minutes 5 seconds, is that an Aaton? It appears throughout the video, I think this is the clearest it gets though. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted September 24, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 24, 2017 Looks like an Arriflex 535. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Berger Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 Looks like an Arriflex 535. I think you're right! I got this screenshot from earlier in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaron Berman Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Arri 535. It's a pig, but solid studio camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Hart Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) Looks like an ARRI maybe with Evolution viewfinder. Edited September 26, 2017 by Robert Hart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Berger Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 Thanks, guys! When watching the commercials, they certainly don't look like 35mm, but they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted September 26, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 26, 2017 For sure 35... I can tell instantly. :) Pretty flat image without the "pop" and glossiness of digital. It's just a not so good transfer and color grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Berger Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 For sure 35... I can tell instantly. :) Pretty flat image without the "pop" and glossiness of digital. It's just a not so good transfer and color grade. Well I didn't really think it was digital (especially since it came out in '97), I just had assumed it had been 16mm because of how the scenes with VFX look....that and I'm used to seeing the actor in TOEI productions that were shot on 16mm (not a great reason but just what hit me at the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted September 26, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 26, 2017 Ohh, yea you can tell its 35mm from the field of view since it's square open gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted September 26, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 26, 2017 Ohh, yea you can tell its 35mm from the field of view since it's square open gate. I don't want to get pedantic about it, but I think it's important we use the right terminology on a site about cinematography. Field of view relates more to lenses and focal lengths. The shape of the camera aperture or cropped frame is called the aspect ratio. You can have a wide aspect ratio, like 2.40:1, but if a telephoto lens was used it will have a narrow field of view. The frame itself doesn't have a field of view. In this example, are you saying it looks like 35mm because the image has a squarer aspect ratio than S16? (It sure isn't square, looks more like about 1.5:1, and the "open gate" 35mm 4 perf aperture isn't square either, it's 1.33:1) Couldn't the aspect ratio of this clip just be how it was cropped for whatever viewing platform it's been recorded from to YouTube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 They are fantastic ads, just watched the first few. Love the recurring neck-tightening sound effect gag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted September 26, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 26, 2017 In this example, are you saying it looks like 35mm because the image has a squarer aspect ratio than S16? I said "field of view", not "aspect ratio". Because it's "open gate" it's just easier to tell the field of view. With a "cropped" image, it becomes a bit harder to differentiate the format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Berger Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) They are fantastic ads, just watched the first few. Love the recurring neck-tightening sound effect gag. Press the "CC" button for subtitles, these are my favourite commercials in the history of TV. "You MUST play Sega Saturn!" Edited September 26, 2017 by Samuel Berger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted September 26, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 26, 2017 I said "field of view", not "aspect ratio".Because it's "open gate" it's just easier to tell the field of view. With a "cropped" image, it becomes a bit harder to differentiate the format. Sorry, I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. OK so you're not talking about the shape of the frame (aspect ratio)? Do you mean you can tell the field of view is say a 40mm lens on S35 rather than a 20mm lens on S16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin R Probyn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I worked as a loader/AC on commercials in Japan in the mid/late nineties ..Toho /Kurawasa Studio,s mostly.. in my experience 100% were shot on 35mm.. either Arri, like the 535.. or Panavision .. nothing else that I ever saw.. and never 16mm... and all shot Academy .. for the then 4-3 TV,s..like these earlier examples .. even in the cinema they were projected in that format.. the commercials were/still are ..totally mad .. and I filled out the weirdest damage report for gear so far.. a lion broke the mattbox box.. (CM for batteries .. a battery operated robot was protecting about 300 baby chickens from a lion, in a studio..).. real lion ..real chicks.. and really stupid !.. Very cosy relationship between production co,s and the two main rental outfits.. and clients being shown they are getting their moneys worth.. no way a 16mm camera would have dared show its face.. when I later shot some commercials I had to pretend I had been flown in, at great expense, rather than living there and told not to speak any Japanese in front of the clients.. cheap import.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Mark Kenfield Posted September 27, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2017 I worked as a loader/AC on commercials in Japan in the mid/late nineties ..Toho /Kurawasa Studio,s mostly.. in my experience 100% were shot on 35mm.. either Arri, like the 535.. or Panavision .. nothing else that I ever saw.. and never 16mm... and all shot Academy .. for the then 4-3 TV,s..like these earlier examples .. even in the cinema they were projected in that format.. the commercials were/still are ..totally mad .. and I filled out the weirdest damage report for gear so far.. a lion broke the mattbox box.. (CM for batteries .. a battery operated robot was protecting about 300 baby chickens from a lion, in a studio..).. real lion ..real chicks.. and really stupid !.. Very cosy relationship between production co,s and the two main rental outfits.. and clients being shown they are getting their moneys worth.. no way a 16mm camera would have dared show its face.. when I later shot some commercials I had to pretend I had been flown in, at great expense, rather than living there and told not to speak any Japanese in front of the clients.. cheap import.. That's brilliant :D What took you to Japan in the first place Robin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Mark Kenfield Posted September 27, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2017 Thanks, guys! When watching the commercials, they certainly don't look like 35mm, but they are. Oh wow, just watched them through. Ludicrous individually, but combined, they're one of the most wonderful things I've ever seen! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin R Probyn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Equally a bit odd.. I met a Japanese women at the Russian Cosmodrome rocket launch site Baikonur in Kazakhstan ..!! late 80,s.. we were the first western crew to go there.. at great expense (the Russian then just wanted dollars and didn't care about spies anymore !) The Tv company in Tokyo she worked for paid $10m for one of their reporters to go unto the MIA space station..I was shooting with a young Barry Ackroyd for program called Red star in orbit.. her room was next to mine at this swanky top brass type guest house, and her toilet over flowed.. ever the gentleman I responded to the screams from her room.. with the suggestion I stay over incase of further plumbing or electrical problems .. Anyway long story short..then met up with her later in Tokyo.. I had been there a few times before from the UK working.. and it seemed a good idea to move there.. at the time ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted September 27, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2017 Do you mean you can tell the field of view is say a 40mm lens on S35 rather than a 20mm lens on S16? Yes, field of view is very recognizable, especially with an "open gate" image. Once you start cropping the image and use longer lenses, the field of view aspect becomes less noticeable between formats. It's really at the "wider" side of things, it's most noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Mark Kenfield Posted September 27, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2017 Equally a bit odd.. I met a Japanese women at the Russian Cosmodrome rocket launch site Baikonur in Kazakhstan ..!! late 80,s.. we were the first western crew to go there.. at great expense (the Russian then just wanted dollars and didn't care about spies anymore !) The Tv company in Tokyo she worked for paid $10m for one of their reporters to go unto the MIA space station..I was shooting with a young Barry Ackroyd for program called Red star in orbit.. her room was next to mine at this swanky top brass type guest house, and her toilet over flowed.. ever the gentleman I responded to the screams from her room.. with the suggestion I stay over incase of further plumbing or electrical problems .. Anyway long story short..then met up with her later in Tokyo.. I had been there a few times before from the UK working.. and it seemed a good idea to move there.. at the time ! What a story! Love it :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 What a story! Love it :) I enjoyed it v much also. There;s depth to all that wit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin R Probyn Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I enjoyed it v much also. There;s depth to all that wit... Its a thin veneer over an addled mind.. I think I just lucked into the last decade of amazing film work for the UK.. from about 83 to 93.. . worked with other great DoP,s but I was Barry Ackroyds first assistant.. I went all around the world literally.. a few times over .. lots of very funny times .a few scary.. like emergency bail out of DC10 in Zambia..it caught fire..guns pointed at me...lots of nutty music videos as MTV started up.. some drama,s .. the pay was amazingly good.. all unionized .. the AC,s would make more than most cameramen ..because you could work 300 days a year..not a bad way to spent my 20,s in London.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hessel Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) Yes, field of view is very recognizable, especially with an "open gate" image. Once you start cropping the image and use longer lenses, the field of view aspect becomes less noticeable between formats. It's really at the "wider" side of things, it's most noticeable. Thats pretty amazing considering the field of view is virtually identical between a 40mm lens on S35 and a 20mm lens on S16. Edited September 27, 2017 by David Hessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted September 28, 2017 Premium Member Share Posted September 28, 2017 Thats pretty amazing considering the field of view is virtually identical between a 40mm lens on S35 and a 20mm lens on S16. Yea, but there are so many other factors from depth of field and lens distortion, which "clue" you in pretty quickly. I've done the 24mm on S16 and 50mm on 35mm challenge many times (two of my favorite lens lengths), they give an entirely different look. Anyone who's been shooting for any bit of time can recognize the difference right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Brereton Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Yea, but there are so many other factors from depth of field and lens distortion they give an entirely different look. Would you please explain the other factors, and how the look is different? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts