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Phil Rhodes

Out of the EU

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The UK (as a country) never wanted to be part of Europe (in the law creation side), it never wanted to be European and when it joined, it kept its currency and started a journey that never was easy.

 

The only thing that the UK was happy with was the EU free trade and it took advantage of it very well and I'm pretty sure that the UK politicians will look for the same deals if the UK finally leaves because remember, it is a referendum, politicians might not do what the people want to do.

 

Again, UK was given amazing deals by the EU, did anybody mention the offer that the EU made to the UK IF they remained? Impressive.

 

By the way, did you happen to know that quite a few of British people who needed to have some sort of surgery done went to Spain "on holidays" to get the surgery done without having to wait for ages in the UK or pay £8000? Of course the surgeries were paid by the Spanish government because the Spanish NHS is 100% free even if you have to have a massive surgery done, which if you are Spanish can take months as opposed as if you are a foreigner "on holidays"', where you will have it done within the day or the week.

 

Anyhow, some people wanted to leave, some people wanted to remain, UK politicians asked to the people and the "leave" won, maybe the people who wanted to leave are still thinking that the Empire is still an Empire, they will find soon that it is not the case anymore.

 

All in all my point is that if the UK wants to leave, let it go! But let it go with all the consequences, no free market, borders, import and export duties, retired couples who are living abroad in the EU being asked to leave, etc, etc.

 

Hopefully farmers in the UK will get grants from the UK itself some day soon, they will have to harvest the fields themselves anyways because there will be no foreigners around to do so anymore and those "£350 million pounds" will be spent in the NHS and the Arts, oh, wait!

 

Funny thing is that a lot of people who vote "Leave" did so because of "the foreigners", however when asked if they meant Irish, French, Spanish people, they said: No! You're ok! You are not foreigners, you're European! We mean the other foreigners!

 

How easy is to provoke fear and intolerance nowadays!

 

By the way, Greenland left the EU a while back.. they are thinking about coming back to it because they want to sell its products to markets which are very difficult to reach to without the help of some EU laws.

 

Maybe when the UK wants to come back all the European citizens in the world should vote if we want it with us or not

 

Some day the world will be united by just one flag and everybody will be able to live, work and spend their lives wherever they want to be!

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You are not foreigners, you're European! We mean the other foreigners!

 

It is pretty hilarious that the refugees in Calais have no desire to stay in France, they all want to get to the UK. Now why is that? Isn't France also a modern democracy? What is it about the UK that makes the refugees want to be there vs France?

 

R,

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Explain to me why not a single market trader anywhere in the world thought the UK leaving the EU was a good idea? I mean if it was such a great idea, shouldn't the markets have reacted positively to the news?

 

What do traders know, that evidently, no one else does?

Who gives a poop about markets and money, that is the problem with this global economy. Everyone is so focused on getting rich off everyone else, they'll do anything to screw each other. The whole "system" needs to crash, everything needs to go down to rock bottom. We had some of that in 2008, but not enough. Had the banks been left to fail, had the bankers who caused the meltdown been hung by the neck until dead, things would be a lot different.

 

Here is the problem Richard, we live in an unsustainable system. No other civilization has made it as far as we have and I hate to break it to you, but we are going to fail like they have. The ONLY way to really fix things is to LET IT FAIL! Every time we get the opportunity, the government spend more money to perpetuate their position. When it fails, they will no longer have the power.

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The ONLY way to really fix things is to LET IT FAIL! Every time we get the opportunity, the government spend more money to perpetuate their position. When it fails, they will no longer have the power.

 

Is this the moment we all join hands and shout, GO TRUMP! :D

 

R,

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Is this the moment we all join hands and shout, GO TRUMP! :D

HA! Well, not to get into politics, but I think he would perpetuate the status quo, so will Hillary Clinton. These are people who thrive off power and money, all they want is to maintain what is currently a failing system for as long as possible. It benefits their pockets, it benefits their clients pockets and it benefits every other rich person who funds candidates like them.

 

What we need a government by the people for the people.

 

None of this matters anyway, the bubble is going to burst with or without intervention. When the middle class salary average is 50k a year ($38k take home times two people = 76k) and the average cost of living is roughly $4k a month = 48k (housing, vehicles, insurance, taxes, food/clothing, child care), there is no money left to be a "consumer". We have no buying power as citizens anymore because it costs too much money to live.

 

When it finally bursts I will clap my hands. People will be FORCED to learn about the truth and I hope this time around, we do hang some bankers.

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Man who voted for Leave says he thought his vote wouldnt count and is now worried

 

Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/man-who-voted-for-leave-says-he-thought-his-vote-wouldnt-count-wins-moron-of-the-year-award-5964450/#ixzz4CXjpseDT

 

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/man-who-voted-for-leave-says-he-thought-his-vote-wouldnt-count-wins-moron-of-the-year-award-5964450/

 

I'm pretty sure that this piece of news is a bit out of context.. but I'm also pretty sure that there were people who genuinely thought that!

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I certainly voted expecting it wouldn't count, because a remain vote was widely expected - although I wasn't daft enough not to think through what I'd voted for should it go the other way.

 

For what it's worth, Miguel, the UK didn't like the EU and the EU largely didn't like the UK. I fear this was always inevitable. It didn't need to be this way, but I feel that the EU brought it on itself. If the intention to federalise had been raised at the right time, properly debated and the implications discussed, they might have got it through. But that would have been hard work, and most modern politicians can't be bothered. An opportunity was squandered here, but it was squandered years ago.

 

P

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Can't speak for how good the decisions was for the UK - but I know it's also effecting our stock markets here in America - and in a pretty big way. I know the UK is their own country and can make their own decisions, but it seems they could have maybe looked at what effects such a decision would have outside the UK.; considering the UK trades with countries like America and others in Europe on a regular basis. In our connected modern world, decisions like this have lasting effects on those other than the ones making them.

 

It would be tantamount to America saying they are pulling out of the United Nations and withdrawing all support. Can you imagine the level of issues that would create for those other than America?

 

I'm no politician and have no idea how it will affect the UK long-term, nor how it will affect other countries - but it seems that the vote created more upheaval than it cured. Yeah, it fixed the issue with border control (or so they think, but we already have a wall with Mexico and some strong anti-immigration policies here and it doesn't really help), but it created a whole new can of worms with the threat of Scotland and Ireland leaving the UK - effectively un-uniting the United Kingdom.

 

That is probably pretty political, but it needs to be said. I don't know how the EU even operates that much, and I wouldn't doubt such a body was probably reliant on support from the UK to stay afloat. But then again, all governments rely on support from their members or citizens to stay afloat, so that is really a moot point. Imagine how much each US state would save by dumping the US government.... Begs the question.

Edited by Landon D. Parks
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Given the locations of the leave voite and how it tended to be the older generations, I suspect there may be an element of protest about how regions outside London have declined over the lat 30 years. Labour seemed very disconnected from their tradtional voters during the whole process, who may have forgotten how many of their rights have come through the EU.

 

It could be similar to how traditional blue collar workers see things in the US at present/

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I understand the complaints of young college-age people, I'm just a bit confused as to why they don't just leave now. The UK is likely to remain an EU member for years, and if there's really that amount of opportunity in France and Germany and Bulgaria then there's ample opportunity to safeguard one's own future and that of one's descendants by leaving right now.

 

Only they haven't, because they don't speak French or German or Bulgarian and there aren't really all that many more opportunities there than there are here. I don't want to be the bad guy here but this sort of griping just doesn't make sense. Put walking boots where mouth is. Very few UK nationals went to live and work in the EU, compared to those who came in (the ratio is nearly 3:1).

 

As to businesses whining about uncertainty, well, welcome to the world. If the EU had somehow prevented the 2008 crash, I'd have a fraction more respect for it. It didn't. What particularly frustrates me is that so many businesspeople describe themselves as leaders and emphasise their suitability for roles of power and responsibility. Then, when something like this happens - and we should be clear that absolutely nothing has actually happened yet - they run around in a blind, mindless panic, behaving like frightened animals in expensive clothes. They're imbeciles.

 

I would have much preferred exit terms to be negotiated before the referendum, so we actually knew what we were voting for. I view the fact that it wasn't as a deliberate attempt by at least the EU and possibly the UK government to frighten people into voting to remain, and this sort of thing is to be sternly resisted. And again, I view all of this as a terribly missed opportunity and a great shame, but the thing was broken decades ago.

 

P

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Yes.

 

Trump will build the second southern border wall with a corresponding reduction in drugs and illegals. We'll also have someone with the cajones to build a northern border fence to stop drug trafficking and terrorists who can basically walk right in, across thousands of miles of unprotected frontier.

Edited by JD Hartman

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JD, the Mexican's won't stop coming over the border thanks to a wall. The drug cartels can throw more money then we can at crossing that wall. So Trump can build it all he wants, but there are rivers/lakes which can't be bordered up. The cartels will build deeper/bigger and more intense tunnels then they've ever made prior. Furthermore, if you trap them, they will use brute force to get through. The death toll to border agents will increase, our government will be forced to enforce the wall with military officials and there will literally be a border war. Meanwhile, in select sections of the wall, people will still be crossing like the wall was never there.

 

The drug cartels won't give up. The only way to "solve" border issue, is to send US military troops over the border and take out every single cartel member, their families and their relatives. We've had 50 years to do that and it's never happened and I don't think a would-be president Trump will either. He talks a lot, but a lot of people have already tried what he wants to do and failed.

 

Ohh and the Canadian border? HA! Nobody is touching that. It's 4x the length of the Mexican border. It goes through heavy mountain/forrest areas with lakes/rivers and literally thousands of roads. People live and work on opposite sides as well, so there is a HUGE work community that would be disrupted. Plus, the cost to build a wall would be astronomical and the Canadian government (like the Mexican government) is going to stick their middle finger up at Trump if he even gets close to proposing it. Trump is not getting the people of this country to pay for a wall tall enough, wide enough, with enough protection on either side, to make it worth while. Might as well build a new, high speed transcontinental railroad, it would probably be cheaper in the long run.

 

What "Fence" people don't realize is that, the VAST majority of illegals here in this country are NOT border crossing mexican. They come here on airplanes and they over stay their visa. Heck, as the US has become more and more unstabilized, the Mexican's are moving back! It's getting harder to find decent work here, even for them, which is crazy!

 

So no JD, sadly none of what Trump "thinks" is going to happen, will happen. He talks a big talk, but he is a failed businessman, living off loans the big banks have granted him because he has a big mouth.

 

Honestly, I hope Trump does get into office because it will be the final tipping point for an all-out revolution in this country. My hope is that it will lead states to disband from the union. It would be great to see the entire west coast come together and leave the union. It would be great to have the entire north east from New York City up to Canada, to split ties and become their own thing or part of Canada (I'd move back there if that happens). Trump can have all the uneducated, gun swinging, jesus loving, gay hating, racists states, and the rest will break away and become their own country, as it should be.

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Trump has said before he has no interest in a Canadian wall. Why would he, it's not like the Canadians are dying to get into America. Trump might have to build a wall with Canada to keep American's in - not illegals out. Yeah, Canada has a little more lax immigration police than the United States does - but not very much of one. I have been trying to get into Canada for over 6 years now and have never yet been able to meet their requirements for the point system. Can't imagine it's that easy for a terrorist from a poor family with no educational background to get into Canada.

 

No, Canada and Mexico are the least of the U.S.'s problems.

 

As for the UK/EU relationship, It's always felt a little strained to me. You hardly ever saw the UK take a big part in supporting the EU, at least from a non-financial standpoint. As was said before, Britain even refused to Euro for the Pound. In a lot of ways, the UK is much more like the United States than it is like Europe. We have similar laws, similar cultures, and similar large right-wing bases exert extreme amounts of power and authority - something you don't see in many European countries. The people in the UK have similar feeling to that of their American brothers. Europe is a whole other ballgame entirely.

 

I'd say the split was going to happen, I just think it could have been handled a little less abrupt than it was. But then again I don't live in the EU or UK, so I really can't speak to it.

Edited by Landon D. Parks

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Landon, much as I revile the people who run this country, I can assure you that our right-of-centre party is absolutely nowhere near the American right wing.

 

P

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Well, I didn't mean that it was exactly alike. I am simply saying that many of the same political ideas that run the US also run the UK. The two countries are more alike than is Britain and the other EU countries. While your conservative party is not like our republican party in-practice, the two have similar ideas. The big difference is: Here in America the religious took over the right wing and are attempting to legislate laws based solely on the Bible. I don't see that happening in the UK - even when a more conservative party is in charge, like they are now.

 

The two are more alike than you might think though. Where our conservative party wants a wall to protect against immigration, your conservative party wants to leave the EU to prevent immigration. Same idea, different methods. I often feel that much the reason the UK conservative party is closer to the center is because the general population is closer to the center. Here, we have a large population of far-right, government-hating, uber-religious, tax-hated, non-white-people hating people - and they vote in droves. The UK people seem more accepting and will to compromise - at least from what I have seen second hand.

 

I'm not jaded though. The US republican party is a joke of the highest caliber. I wish I could say the Democrats were any better, but short of a few - most are right in league with the right-wing. Basically, our Democratic party is roughly similar to your conservative party... Which makes our republican party look extreme in comparison. We don't seem to have the liberal movement though that the UK has.

 

PS) Now I see some MP's are calling for another referendum vote. I'd say that should be the case, personally. It's such a big decisions that people should be able to give it a second go.

Edited by Landon D. Parks

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Landon, the entire US political spectrum would be considered right wing by British standards. Even your center left Democrats are conservative compared to British parties. Nowhere in British politics is there something even remotely similar to American Christian Right.

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I see the UK wanting to have control over their own laws, vs a larger governing body (the EU).

 

The big problem comes down the fact, if there are ANY issues related to travel/immigration, they MUST be dealt with in the heavily bureaucratic EU courts.

 

So it really has nothing to do with protecting AGAINST immigration. It has to do with having CONTROL over immigration.

 

The UK is a bloody island, so they CAN very well institute their own legislation on travel/immigration. Heck, when it really comes down to it, we're an island as well. The only difference is that the US conservative party, the guys who spout the constitution all day long when it comes to their rights to own guns, forget where they came from. We are a country of immigrants, those ultra conservative crazies are too stupid to look into their past and realize where they came from. By contrast, the UK was not a country of immigrants until they opened the flood gates not that long ago because they wanted a lower-class to do all the work for them. It was a HUGE mistake and now they're backpedaling on it.

 

This decision in 10 - 20 years, may make the UK a much more conservative country and probably a better place to live for white folk scared of anyone with a hint of dark skin or funny accent. :shrug: I'll say this much, having lived in the mecca's of diversity in the US, I like it! There is nothing cooler then being on a subway ride where people are speaking 10 different languages, wearing cool clothing from all over the world and all getting along nicely with one another. That to me is mighty awesome!

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I wouldn't say there is just one reason why the UK voted to leave, there appears to be a range of reasons given by those voting to leave. It''s also age related, more older people voted to leave than young people. Interestingly, there has been the suggestion if they had a second referendum, the result may not be the same because of people changing their mind again.

 

Surprisingly, immigration seems to be less of an issue for the UK Conservative party members on the leave side than UKIP for whom it is key.

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Immigration is a sideshow. It was used to get the vote out, and while I understand why people wanted the vote got out, doing it that way has created an awful lot of very unpleasant fallout.

 

My concerns were always over planning (or lack thereof), particularly for the proposed superstate - or rather the not-proposed-but-clearly-on-the-cards superstate, as well as issues of democracy, bureaucracy and sheer competence.

 

If there's an issue about immigration, it's about why the current situation, where there's bad feeling due to extremely one-sided movement of people, was not anticipated. This brings up those issues of competence: the current situation was always and obviously inevitable, and plans to mitigate the problems should have been in place. They weren't, so there's a lot of unnecessary ill will which will be hard to shift.

 

P

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We'll also have someone with the cajones to build a northern border fence to stop drug trafficking and terrorists who can basically walk right in, across thousands of miles of unprotected frontier.

 

Too late we're already building it. The faster we wall ourselves off from your zanny country and your now daily mass shootings.....the better.

 

Your country consumes half the entire world supply of illegal drugs despite being just 4% of the earth's population, and you need protection from us?

 

The number of guns in your country is higher than Canada by the multi-millions, and you think you're the ones that need the wall?

 

Chicago has more murders per year than all of Canada combined, holy sheeeet! We better get that wall built PDQ!!!!!!

 

R,

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I have been trying to get into Canada for over 6 years now and have never yet been able to meet their requirements for the point system. Can't imagine it's that easy for a terrorist from a poor family with no educational background to get into Canada.

 

You're welcome anytime Landon.

 

And yes, Canada takes in poor people with no educational background all the time. Who else do you think drives the cabs here and cleans the office buildings? White Canadians? Yeah right!

 

R,

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