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I recently got an Aaton LTR 7 serviced and have been practicing loading it and running film through it for a project.

It has 2 mags. One of the mags is making a scratching sound and I am not sure what it is. The only difference between the mags is the rubber stoppers on the load in side seem to keep getting ground down everytime I run a roll through the camera on this problematic mag. Is there another reason that the sound could be happening and if not do you know why these are being grounded down? improper loading? The roll maybe has to be completely flat when loading? I'm really not sure and would appreciate any help.

Thanks!

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Before attaching the magazine to the camera, after loading a full roll, give a sharp know with your fist on the cover of the loading side while holding the magazine upright in normal shooting position. This will move the fresh rawstock slightly and prevent it from rubbing against the backplate. 

During transport loaded magazines should be stored upright, not flat.

 

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I did the smacking of the mag and only store them upright and the problem persists. The other mag I have I load, store, and use exactly the same and do not have this problem with. Any ideas on why only 1 mag is doing this? Could it be an adjustment in the mag that is needed?

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Check that the spindle is not bent. Run some dummy film with the cover off to see if the roll is staying even as it spins. Check that nothing else is misaligned, a sprocket or roller too high or low compared with the plane of the roll. Check that the cover clears the film when fitted, the film core seats properly on the spindle, etc.

Edited by Dom Jaeger
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The photo with the core looks like one of the sprung loaded "securing lugs" (the top one in the pic ) that spring out when you push the centre button ,isn't out properly .. or you not putting the core on straight .. you shouldn't have to be constantly slapping the mags .. I only had to do that occasionally..  or the noise is because those plastic guides are so worn down .. 

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I was puzzled that the plastic guides ("rubber stoppers") had not been replaced with the service. Anything rubbing against something in that worn state would make noise. A fresh guide would be less noisy. Are they hard to find or hard to replace? I love the work of Aaton designer Beauvalia, but if those film guides are rubber I am perplexed. If you have to make some, just use something like acetal, easy to machine, hard wearing and will lubricate itself. 

Not to take anything away from the concerns about the spindle perhaps sending the roll off axis, or whatever else is the cause... 

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4 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said:

I was puzzled that the plastic guides ("rubber stoppers") had not been replaced with the service. Anything rubbing against something in that worn state would make noise. A fresh guide would be less noisy. Are they hard to find or hard to replace? I love the work of Aaton designer Beauvalia, but if those film guides are rubber I am perplexed. If you have to make some, just use something like acetal, easy to machine, hard wearing and will lubricate itself. 

Not to take anything away from the concerns about the spindle perhaps sending the roll off axis, or whatever else is the cause... 

There are not rubber .. some kind of hard plastic ..I cant remember ever seeing them as worn down as that , but that was many years ago and they were all a lot newer !   but they need replacing thats for sure .. 

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The rubber stoppers came back from the technician in good condition as far as I could remember. It wasn't something I paid attention to when I got the mag. It was an error on my end from running so many dummy loads through and only noticing the damage once the sound started happening.

I made a video that I'm sending to the tech where I go through all of this. I was suspecting the spindle being set too deep into the mag/bent. The last minute or two of this video show it running cover open. Not sure if the angle I got helps you determine that at all. 

Either way i appreciate you guys pointing me in the right direction and hopefully it's an easy fix for the tech.

 

 

Edited by Peter Kelesis
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Sorry I missed this thread. 

So alas, the original LTR magazines kinda suck and there isn't much you can do about them outside of converting them to XTR parts, which has been doable in the past. 

The XTR magazines solved this problem by changing the routing of the film through the magazine and how the film is held in the magazine. 

The table height for the core does seem a bit high. That table should be flush with the magazine body itself, not raised like it is. Perhaps it's just an illusion whilst looking at the video. But that whole magazine locking assembly comes off with a screw on the side to accept 100ft daylight spools. This also allows you to adjust the table height. Maybe its simply too high? 

The camera over-all makes A LOT of funny noises, not just the scraping. It should be literally dead silent outside of a slight "flick" sound from the pull down claw. The loud squeak sound is wrong, totally wrong. Its gotta be the light roller or the roller in front of it. 

Edited by Tyler Purcell
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I guess send back the noisy mag to have the spinal drives checked again...  loop looks ok ,I was taught that 2 finger loop and then shown a much quicker way .. as Stuart says .. make the top loop first .. put the film in the sprocket clamp and close it .. push the film through the top of the mag and the bottom .. but without engaging the lower sprocket holder arm.. push the film up wards on the pressure plate, so that it is just off touching the sprocket clamp arm thing .. then holding that position with one finger .. engage the lower sprocket arm.. takes a bit ion getting used to but is alot easier and quicker when you have it down pat.. 

The dummy rolls are very loose and ridged  compared to a new roll..  I think this is also why they are cutting into those guides so much ..when loading short ends I would always try to pull the film tighter on the core .. to avoid mag scrapping  noise .. 

Short of a total rebuild I guess you will always have some noise off a very old camera , but it still sounds alot quite than a new Arri SR did back in the day ,they sounded like a tractor .. that was always Aatons big thing .. just how quite they were ..

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12 hours ago, Brian Drysdale said:

My message referred to after you've created the loops,

oh see what you mean .. just so the top loop isn't tight .. I used sort of the same technique to make the loop .. quicker than the 2 finger thing ..

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When I had my LTR54 it had the three plastic guides like those in the pics of this LTR7.

I had an overhaul done at Abel on the LTR54 and the guides were replaced with round pads.

My LTR54 was a pretty quiet camera either way.

You can remove the feed spindle by undoing the flat head screw and check the pad under it and see if it is deformed or if something got caught in it.

Looking at your video I think you may have too long a loop. I measure out 13 frames in the loop when I load and have done that on the LTR and now my XTR.

 

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