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New Mystery filmstock from Kodak?


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Hello all,

I just came across this from the Kodak instagram page, a new Moses Sumney music video shot on "a yet to be released film stock" by Kodak :

Screenshot2024-06-20at21_21.45copy.thumb.jpg.08644bff22c3c92188d4c1f5eb62d5f4.jpg

Nkosi Roma on Youtube speculates that it could either be a ECN-2 version of Portra or a new Vision3 400D stock.

Anybody know anything about this?

Here's the music video for those interested, some good images:

 

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I know a bit about what's going on, but I don't think I can really spill details yet. 

Suffice to say, it's not a "new" stock at all. It's simply a still film that's been made to work in a motion picture film camera with the proper coatings and lubrication. I'm not sure it even has an anti-halation coating, but obviously it's ECN-2 based. 

In terms of ISO, my educated guess is that it's 400 iso. Why? It just makes sense. They have 50, 100 (Ektachrome), 200, 250 covered. What they don't have is a finer grain, but still sensitive stock. The cool thing about still film, is that it's not necessarily daylight OR tungsten. So using a still film for motion picture, would be very interesting and deliver a result that may work really well for mixed light sources where you aren't so beholden to a single color balance like with standard motion picture stocks. We aren't printing these days, so why does any of the stocks truly need to have a meaningful color balance one way or the other. I almost feel Kodak should be making more generic run of the mill color balance stocks. Maybe make a 50D for daylight and a 500T for tungsten, but everything else in the middle COULD be 4k rated. 

Release date is unknown, but from what I understand, more information will come out this summer. 

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7 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I'm not sure it even has an anti-halation coating, but obviously it's ECN-2 based.

Tyler, did the Orwo colour stock you tested have an anti-halation layer?

I would love this mystery stock to be an ECN-2 version of Portra 400 or even Ektar. Also down for the mixed daylight-tungsten balance aspect. A filmstock specifically made for LED lighting and DI is exciting.

Also, I feel Moses's video has that Portra "sheen" to it.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Karim D. Ghantous said:

It could be Portra 160. It's a very clean image. I have an HD monitor, but no 4K, so I'm going off that.

Hey Karim, it would not make sense to be a low iso daylight film. I have heard rumours of it being like the Portra 400 and for it not to be D or T designated, but even that would be like a bit of an anticlimax.....what would be incredible would be Portra 800 equivalent. This is a masterpiece film from Kodak. Imagine having a film to counter the shitgital low light argument! Portra 800 is my go to film for my pro photography jobs. Superb. Beautiful.

Edited by Stephen Perera
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Nice look the film has, pretty well balanced! 

Does not look like V3, V2, V or EXR, definitely more towards stills stocks. A tiny bit of 70's vibes if compared to that era MP stocks but it is good that the look is more subtle than on the Orwo stock which has one could say problematic amount of weirdness and thus more suitable for very specific uses. This is definitely more practical stock for most actual productions.

Hard to say from youtube compression and everything but to me the grain looks like at least 400 ISO 35mm footage. Could be more depending on the emulsion technology but likely towards medium or high ISO stock, not anything low rated

 

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2 hours ago, Stephen Perera said:

Imagine having a film to counter the shitgital low light argument!

controlled light can be done fine at 400 or 800 ISO, that is what most higher end digital productions try to shoot at if possible because most cameras still made for around 800ISO and that is comfortable level to work at.

Available light is difficult though, or if shooting limited budget stuff. I do that kind of thing and between 2500 and 12800 ISO often needed, with very large amount of footage captured at around 4000 ISO or so. Depends on the lenses too, the higher performing your capturing medium is the more it gives freedom with lens choices and creative lighting. Shooting documentary stuff with tele lenses in low light levels is one specific case where digital makes all the difference, in the past one just did not get those shots at all because shooting at something like T8 with very high ISO was impossible

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2 hours ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

controlled light can be done fine at 400 or 800 ISO, that is what most higher end digital productions try to shoot at if possible because most cameras still made for around 800ISO and that is comfortable level to work at.

Available light is difficult though, or if shooting limited budget stuff. I do that kind of thing and between 2500 and 12800 ISO often needed, 

I agree with this in general. Something to think about: back in the 1980s, some sports photographers were shooting Fuji 400 negative film at EI -3, or 3200. The results were very useable. These days, maybe 3-perf 35mm could be 'usable' at those levels. 

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30 minutes ago, Karim D. Ghantous said:

I agree with this in general. Something to think about: back in the 1980s, some sports photographers were shooting Fuji 400 negative film at EI -3, or 3200. The results were very useable. These days, maybe 3-perf 35mm could be 'usable' at those levels. 

yes but push processing film does not help get more shadow detail, more than maybe half a stop tops. It mainly lifts everything up. So one still gets the approximate shadow dynamic range of the, say, 400 ISO film even if push processed couple of stops.

Push processing helps to a point by lifting the slightly underexposed stuff upwards but it cannot generate anything to the very lowest portion of the image which was on the very lowest toe range of the response curve, just over the base grain.

So stuff like this would be impossible to shoot with it, it exposes so low that 400 or 800 ISO film could not see anything at all and it is just base fog completely, nothing to push process upwards.

(ISO12800 with 100-300/4 zoom wide open, still exposes very low so gained the lows maybe a stop in Resolve to get to an acceptable level and contrast)

 

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2 minutes ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

So stuff like this would be impossible to shoot with it, it exposes so low that 400 or 800 ISO film could not see anything at all and it is just base fog completely, nothing to push process upwards.

(ISO12800 with 100-300/4 zoom wide open, still exposes very low so gained the lows maybe a stop in Resolve to get to an acceptable level and contrast)

Screenshot 2024-06-21 at 17.17.56.png

Screenshot 2024-06-21 at 17.18.59.png

additionally you can't really see anything through an optical viewfinder at those light levels. you start to need the video camera for "night vision purposes" to figure out where the animals are or if the image is focused or not. Even if there would be super high ISO film it would be pretty useless without very sensitive video tap for the operator to see what the camera is really shooting and if it is acceptably focused or not. Even 2000ISO would be very hard

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9 hours ago, Gautam Valluri said:

Tyler, did the Orwo colour stock you tested have an anti-halation layer?

Kinda? It's pretty weak, but yes it has something. 

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This new film looks great. Exciting times.

Here's some slogans I came up with, for film fans (one just adds to an already well-known slogan, about art):

"Film has heart, because film is art"

"Shoot film ... because life is better with art"

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12 minutes ago, Jon O'Brien said:

This new film looks great. Exciting times.

Here's some slogans I came up with, for film fans (one just adds to an already well-known slogan, about art):

"Film has heart, because film is art"

"Shoot film ... because life is better with art"

IMHO you need to be more assertive, or appeal to something not so obvious. Your aim as an advertiser is not to be nice, it's to win the market. E.g. "Film is alive". Or "Kodak Film. Feel It." Or, you appeal to the greatness of history "For over 125 years, the world's greatest movies were shot on film. Here's to 125 more. Kodak film. Feel it." You get the idea. I'm sure someone has something better (I actually do have one slogan I'm not divulging, as I love it so much).

Of course, one day we might see an ad with a headline that says simply, "20 Stops." Whether that's for a film product or a digital one is currently unknown. Kodak could give us a black and white emulsion with 20+ stops if they wanted, without doing too much R&D. In principle.

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2 hours ago, Stephen Perera said:

hahah slogan time that's good. How about
'Shoot film...you know you want to'

Welcome to exposure country.

Anyhow... shoot a roll of film.

Ask the man who shoots one.

Experience the difference.

Just shoot it.

Got film?

Good to the last frame.

When you care enough to shoot the very best.

Kodak film remembers. (LOL)

Anyway... maybe there should be a Kodak soft drink!

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good thing is theres prob no DP out there who doesn't want to shoot film at some point...and that bodes well....every music video I see these days is film...hope this trend lasts.....the most impressive being the 'This is America' which I will repost here to remind ourselves

 

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I like "Shoot film...you know you want to"

and

"Anyhow... shoot a roll of film" (or maybe just "Anyhow... shoot film")

I could imagine a 70s or 80s TV or cinema ad where Paul Hogan is holding a Bolex to his eye atop the Sydney Harbour Bridge, with Strop next to him. He lowers the camera and says to Strop, "Anyhow... shoot a roll of film!" Strop holds up a box of Kodak film, smiles straight at camera and says, "...yeah ..mate ...ya just can't lose with film" then the ad closes with the rousing theme of Tchaikovsky's 5th symphony as Hoges goes back to filming and the camera zooms out.

 

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