Could You Recommend a Consumer-level Video-editing Program?

[Aapo Lettinen]

I haven't used more recent Vegas versions but the previous ones had serious problems with memory leaks during playback which limited realtime capabilities. maybe they have fixed that in current versions.

It was really nice to be able to add video effects to VIDEO TRACKS in addition with the clip based effecting and it handled multi-resolution material easily. was a bit unstable at times but was quite usable for small projects.

 

I'm a fan of Premiere CC and FCP7, sometimes use Resolve for very small editing but it is really not that good for other than very simple projects or when you need to have good color grading capabilities integrated in the edit program. as others said the Resolve is all about GPU processing. its sound capabilities lack quite a bit so it would be wise to do the audio finishing with separate programs

[Brian Drysdale]

I think you can easily get into a Mac v PC thing, although currently there seems to be a slight trend towards moving away from the Mac ( the no virus/malware argument really doesn't apply, anything can get those these days) because perceptions that Apple is moving away from professionals towards consumer products.

 

There is also software that only works on a PC. .

[Tyler Purcell]

There is absolutely software that only works on windows. Thank god Mac's can run both operating systems at the same time ( so can any PC for that matter) . So if you really need a windows environment, you literally command + Tab over to it.

 

Where it's true Apple is stepping away from the "professional" realm, lucky for us their last generation of Mac Pro towers, are still pretty relevant. With some minor tweaks to hardware and software, you can get them to run just as fast as a heavily built windows PC, no questions asked.

 

Where the mac operating system kicks windows ass is in the 64 bit multi threaded category. Most of windows is still 32 bit and the way it deals with multithreading is, to say the least, not very good. So sure, one single task like a render, its really hard to tell the difference with like-like hardware on a mac vs windows machine. However.. when you're doing every day tasks, there is a sharp difference in how these two operating systems deal with memory, graphics and multithreading.

 

Put it to you another way, windows is a very unstable operating system that even in it's best of times, even with the best hardware, is still a nightmare to deal with when it's not working perfectly. I spent years supporting windows XP, Vista, Windows 7 and 8, so I know quite a bit about making it work and honestly, what's the point? Most of the windows clients I had, we simply put iMac's with SSD's where those windows machines use to be and never got another service call again.

 

So yea, windows machines are cheaper... but like everything that's cheap, you get what you pay for at some point in the future.

[Landon D. Parks]

But :cough: that's because I use real software packages... not toys like Sony Vegas.

 

Does any professional really use Vegas, though? I haven't touched Vegas since v.9, and that was back when I had my cheap consumer HDV camcorder and used it to play around / edit home movies. I currently have v.13, but only to open projects given to me by other people. No one has yet.

 

 

Where the mac operating system kicks windows ass is in the 64 bit multi threaded category. Most of windows is still 32 bit and the way it deals with multithreading is, to say the least, not very good. So sure, one single task like a render, its really hard to tell the difference with like-like hardware on a mac vs windows machine. However.. when you're doing every day tasks, there is a sharp difference in how these two operating systems deal with memory, graphics and multithreading. Put it to you another way, windows is a very unstable operating system that even in it's best of times, even with the best hardware, is still a nightmare to deal with when it's not working perfectly.

 

I'll just say that I have been using Windows my entire life, and have never encountered these glitches and driver issues that many people complain about. Not. Once. Well, one time I got the BSOD, but that was because my HDD failed, something that Mac drives are not immune to. As Brian said in the above thread, Pro's are moving away from Apple, and that is because Windows has been getting a lot better at what they need. Apple's lack of drive to support the professional community is also troubling. They don't support nVidia cards that well for starters - which is an issue for many people. They pretty much screwed up FCPx to where its a souped-up Windows Movie Maker (or iMovie if your use that type of thing). The new towers are starting to be designed toward multi-tasking on everyday stuff rather than serious uses like rendering and trans-coding - which are valuable tools needed for any editor. Yes, the old hardware can still work great and can catch up to some PC machines - but what happens when it can't; and given computer power standards - it soon won't.

 

My biggest issue with Mac's is their reliance on 'Plug-n-play' mentality. It's a one-size-fits-the-common-denominator mentality. This lack of customization prevents people from getting the computer they need, and rather forces them to get a 'standard' computer that works for 'most' people. Meanwhile, if a new rendering technology comes out that requires a new GPU - I can simply run out and buy it, plug it in, and boom - I'm all set.

 

Look, I understand that a lot of Pro's in the media industry still use Mac. No question about it. However, I feel that is because they were taught to use Mac in an era where Mac had the upper hand in media design and editing. They stay because the cost to remove all the Mac pipeline and put in a Windows or Linux pipeline is more expensive and time consuming, and the current setup still works for them - not because Mac is superior. The whole 'Mac is better' argument has not been valid for a long while now, and is mostly thrown around by people who use a Mac and other Apple products like a religion. I encourage anyone to build a top-tier PC like I have (which is the same or less money than a Mac Pro), and then compare the two directly. Most won't and can't, because they either have one or the other - not both.

 

And lets be serious, the only reason Apple won't release ProRes on PC is because they know if they did, it would only accelerate the decline of their Pro market.

 

My PC setup, pictured below, can stand on its own with any Mac Pro - even the current one. I'd put money on it.

 

AMD FX9590, 64GB ram, Blackmagic Mini Monitor card, 2 x GTX 1080's, 12TB storage in Raid 5, etc.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[Tyler Purcell]

Does any professional really use Vegas, though? I haven't touched Vegas since v.9, and that was back when I had my cheap consumer HDV camcorder and used it to play around / edit home movies. I currently have v.13, but only to open projects given to me by other people. No one has yet.

I don't know anyone using Vegas professionally. Almost everyone I know uses Avid, Premiere or FCPX.

 

I'll just say that I have been using Windows my entire life, and have never encountered these glitches and driver issues that many people complain about.

Got a story for ya...

 

So I do A LOT of windows support, pretty much once a week I'm fighting with windows in one way or another. Anyway, I'm at one of my clients facilities who uses windows workstations for 3D work. No internet, these machines are MPAA secure and only talk to a network for storage purposes.

 

Anyway, this hot shot windows workstation guru comes in to setup the new windows machines because I told the client, I wouldn't do it. I talk to the guy for at least an hour as we tag-teamed the hardware build of 6 new workstations. He told me how he'd never in his entire career struggled with windows issues. He then spent the better part of a week trying to make these computers actually work properly. At the end of the week, we reconvened and I asked him WTF right? I mean 4 days to mirror image 6 machines, what's the big deal? He said ohh it's all normal stuff. I was like really? It takes me 25 minutes to image a Mac. He gulped and basically spilled the beans about how many hardware/driver/software conflicts there are in windows these days. He sat down and showed me all the directory fixes he had to make by hand to make the damn things connect to just the network, let alone anything else. It didn't even phase him what so ever, it was like totally normal work for him, so when I told him how "odd" it was, he shrugged and said, hey it's windows.

 

Moral of the story... if all you know is something that doesn't work right, you'll automatically know how to resolve the problems before they even start. It's the same with Mac's, there are a few "got ya's" if all you've used is windows over the years. The difference is that, when you build a mac, you rarely have to deal with drivers of any kind. So you can be rest assured no matter what, the Video card drivers, USB, SATA, Optical drive, Bluetooth, Wireless, audio I/O, will just work when you hit the power button. When you build a new Mac, you simply hold down the option key on boot, select "net boot" and it will actually run off the internet AND install a new operating system on the fly, no disks, no downloads, no websites, no second computer to help you out, none of that. It's pretty amazing and it's been that way for... ohh close to a decade.

 

My biggest issue with Mac's is their reliance on 'Plug-n-play' mentality. It's a one-size-fits-the-common-denominator mentality. This lack of customization prevents people from getting the computer they need, and rather forces them to get a 'standard' computer that works for 'most' people. Meanwhile, if a new rendering technology comes out that requires a new GPU - I can simply run out and buy it, plug it in, and boom - I'm all set.

Well, amazingly enough, Apple did make a standard ol' computer, that's what most industry people use. My machine has standard Intel chip set and processors, totally upgradable (though not to the most recent processors due to the type of socket, this is the same on PC's though). My machine has 4 PCI slots, all standard stuff 1, 16x and 3, 8x. My machine has 8 memory slots and is 128 bit, so you can run 128gb of memory no problem @ 1600MHZ. My machine has 6 internal 6GBps sata connectors (4 for 3.5" raid array and 2 for 2.5" drives) and 2 optical drive slots which are 3GBps sata. It also has 802.11 A, B, G, N wireless with Bluetooth 2.0 built-in. It has 16 bit D/A converters and built-in 1/8" stereo i/o PLUS optical digital i/o for surround decoding. It also has a big power supply that can run all of this, plus two high power graphics cards with fan power.

 

The only thing my machine doesn't have is USB3, which is a real shame. The cards are cheap and work great, but it gobbles up ONE PCI slot that could be used for something else.

 

Don't think of new computers when you think of Apple... think of the year 2012 when they stopped making the best computer they ever made. Sure it's an "old" computer compared to todays standards, but it's still stupid fast. Benchmarks equal or better the best PC's on the market today. I haven't tested it yet, but supposedly my machine CAN benchmark well over 30,000 on multi-core geekbench tests. I will run a test when I have some time.

 

My machine cost me $1500 bux + memory + IO + GPU, so maybe $2200 ish? I got a used GTX980 on ebay and a killer deal on a blackmagic 4k I/O board. I also got a Red Rocket for peanuts. So yea, $2200 bux sounds about right. That's pretty amazing for a 5 year old computer.

 

Look, I understand that a lot of Pro's in the media industry still use Mac. No question about it. However, I feel that is because they were taught to use Mac in an era where Mac had the upper hand in media design and editing. They stay because the cost to remove all the Mac pipeline and put in a Windows or Linux pipeline is more expensive and time consuming, and the current setup still works for them - not because Mac is superior. The whole 'Mac is better' argument has not been valid for a long while now, and is mostly thrown around by people who use a Mac and other Apple products like a religion. I encourage anyone to build a top-tier PC like I have (which is the same or less money than a Mac Pro), and then compare the two directly. Most won't and can't, because they either have one or the other - not both.

Mac's have the upper hand for so many reasons...

 

My favorite is the ability to hover over any document/movie/audio file on your computer, hit the spacebar and see it's contents in real time with NO programs installed on the machine. You can literally watch an entire movie in that mode with audio. You can see an entire Microsoft Office spreadsheet in that mode, without having office installed.

 

That is one of two dozen "features" in the Mac OS, that is the reason WHY people keep using it. Apple was so intelligent in their operating system design, they simply built-in support for everything and sure, there are a few new codec's that you need drivers for, Red Code and DNX are the two main ones, but they're no big deal and most people will never touch either one of them.

 

It's not JUST about apple hardware, (they DID make the best laptops until the more recent abomination) it's mostly about the software. A great deal of people run Mac OS on their PC's because they like the OS so much, but they don't want to spend the money on buying apple hardware. Sure, there are some driver conflicts when you do that, but the work arounds are becoming more and more available. I foresee a time in the near future where Apple simply makes drivers for pretty much all PC chipsets and ends the whole driver issue, just to keep professionals happy. I have ZERO quorums about building a mega PC and running Mac OS on it. It's just... my old tower, which I still use for rendering, is from 2008 and it works great. It's a 10 year old computer that can edit in 4k all day long. Please tell me what 10 year old Windows PC can edit 4k STOCK!

 

What you pay for in a Mac is the ability to not need a new computer every 2 - 3 years. I use very old Mac's because it doesn't matter, they all work with the latest operating systems perfectly, they all are upgradable so what's the big deal? In fact, next month I'm going to buy a 5 year old Macbook Pro as my "new" laptop because frankly, the new one's aren't that much faster. Apple is so far ahead of the game, their computers simply last longer then PC's do and that's a fact. Not saying you NEED a mac, just saying these are good reasons to OWN a Mac.

[Landon D. Parks]

"when you build a mac"

 

Ughhh, ain't that against the code? Where would you buy the parts - the OS - etc? I think you mean, 'when you order a Mac from Apple or a certified re-seller'; I mean, unless I'm way behind the times and its now possible to custom build your own Mac.

[Aapo Lettinen]

nothing computer based can be trusted, let's be honest and say that they are all bad designs one way or another :lol:

 

by my experience, mac based systems CAN be a bit more reliable if you only use couple of extremely well made programs and never have to update anything or connect it to LAN or internet. otherwise, it is just the same old driver/hardware/software nightmare than with Windows or Linux or any other operating system. Some tasks may be a bit easier with Mac, like connecting to a network, but they are absolutely not machines which you can blindly trust on.

 

I mainly use Mac systems at work because everyone else is using hfs+ based drives for raw material and deliveries and I need fcpx and fcp7 every now and then and almost all the material goes in and out in Prores.

copying 10 or 20 or 100TB of material through something like hfs+explorer is absolutely insane and totally unpractical so the best solution is to just have a mac or two on hand, even if some tasks are made on windows computers

[Tyler Purcell]

"when you build a mac"

 

Ughhh, ain't that against the code? Where would you buy the parts - the OS - etc? I think you mean, 'when you order a Mac from Apple or a certified re-seller'; I mean, unless I'm way behind the times and its now possible to custom build your own Mac.

Remember, the only thing that separates a "mac" from a "PC" is the firmware/BIOS. They are literally identical today. So yes, you can go to your local PC store, buy a computer that Mac OS has drivers for, download (from a friends house) a copy of Mac OS and make it work. It's a bitch and a half, but it does work and it's super stable.

 

Until 2012, Apple has always had an upgradable professional computer available to the public. I've had them since the mid 90's and I'm still running an "older" machine right now. Inside it looks no different then a PC, all familiar stuff, only built SO much better. The replacement machine is a toy, which is a real shame.

[Tyler Purcell]

by my experience, mac based systems CAN be a bit more reliable if you only use couple of extremely well made programs and never have to update anything or connect it to LAN or internet. otherwise, it is just the same old driver/hardware/software nightmare than with Windows or Linux or any other operating system.

Well, there are no driver issues on mac's, there are no viruses or malware either. I've never had antivirus, I've never had a firewall, I've never had to deal with any of those things on a mac.

 

Where on a windows machine? Holy poop, one day the thing is working perfectly, next day you turn it on and it's got error messages on bootup. You safe boot and realize that holy poop, your virus protector was out of date and some new fangled bullshit got past it and onto your machine. Really? all because you didn't update a stupid virus protector that is only there because you run windows in the first place?

 

That's just ONE issue... and I see it ALL THE FRIGGEN TIME! In my opinion, if you need to run "protection" of any kind, your operating system is poorly written. Mac OS solves this problem by having a few genius security protocols that don't allow viruses and malware to take hold. Sure, if someone was clever, they could knock out your web browser. It would take 10 seconds to fix it though because it only installs a very visible plugin that is easy to uninstall by an average user.

 

So in my 22 years of supporting mac's, including over a decade of it being my full time job, I've seen a dozen instances of virus and malware on mac's. All of them stemming from people using windows computers and copying over data that corrupts microsoft programs. So the computers worked fine, but the microsoft programs didn't. Ohh well... just re-install and you're fine.

[Brian Drysdale]

I haven't had a virus on my PC for a number of years,

[Max Field]

I understand that Mac can come included with better media codecs but isn't the whole thing with their OS to be "idiot proof"?

 

Tyler mentioned that he installed Macs for a studio/office/I forgot and never got a call back with a tech issue. The fact people who are clueless with general computer usage can't install a bunch of stuff on a Mac and make the machine slowly break down is a positive, but at the same time if we assume everyone here is good with managing any kind of computer does that point still stand valid in a general sense?

 

I know people who are still smoothly running WinXP machines to this day. I wouldn't call them computer geniuses, they just browse safely, keep their drives clean, etc.

[Landon D. Parks]

I haven't had a virus on my PC for a number of years,

 

I only ever had one 'virus', which was actually an adware program. That was about 12 years ago. All my PC's are connected to the internet, and none of them run any antivirus software either. Frankly, I think this whole 'Windows virus problem' is a joke. Yeah, if you go opening spam emails and/or visiting obscure porn sites you are likely to install a virus (or more likely, adware or hijackware), but the solution to that is not to get a 'dumb-proof' computer, but to stop being dumb in the first place. And the only reason Mac has less viruses than Windows is because there are less Mac's out there, and as such it makes less sense to write a virus for the platform. Same with Linux. It's not because Mac has some magic-code that prevents viruses.

 

I've said it before on other sites, and I'll say it here: Mac is for people who like 'plug-n-play-n-forget-it' computing. They don't want to deal with any technical jargon. They just want to turn it on and it work for them. Mac is great at that, but it's also a limiting factor in that it prevents a lot of the customization available to those who WANT to tinker with their computers to get more power from them.

 

Not really criticizing Mac's here at all. They are fine computers and will work just as well as any Windows machine in pretty much any circumstance, what I'm criticizing is the stance that Mac is the only professional option out there - and that Windows PC's are a bloatware, virus-ridden joke. It's simply not true, and spouts a lot of the old "mac v. windows' debates that might have had some substance back 3 or 4 OS generations ago.

 

PS) Why rewrite a perfectly functioning program to 64-bit if it works fine in 32-bit? Small kernal files don't require access to more than 4GB or ram, so it's redundant to do extra work for that. Trust me, if the performance increase was that great - Microsoft would have made Windows 100% 64-bit. Another problem with Windows is that making some things 64-bit would screw with older software titles. Mac has the luxury that pretty much anything released (software-wise) has to follow strict guidelines and be QA'ed before release. Windows and Linux are more open alternatives, which means the OS needs to try and keep a neutral ground. That is why most new Mac programs only work on the latest version of the OS, which is annoying.

 

Look, I'm not saying Mac's aren't fine computers. If you like Mac's and they work for you - get one. However, you can do perfectly professional work on a PC Windows or Linux platform without any of these so-called 'issues' - professionals do it every day. Contrary to popular belief, Mac does not hold a 100% market share in professional media. If there is one professional out there using Windows-based PC's without any issues - you can too.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[George Ebersole]

I believe YouTube offers editing tools, though I've never used them. Given than they show 1080p streams, I would assume that you could whatever you want without worrying about losing data from editing online.

[Max Field]

I believe YouTube offers editing tools, though I've never used them. Given than they show 1080p streams, I would assume that you could whatever you want without worrying about losing data from editing online.

I'd stray far away. Anything you upload there gets compressed to hell before giving a "final render". The tools it offers there are on the level of Windows Movie Maker if not lower.

[Landon D. Parks]

Youtube's editing tools are Windows Movie Maker-lite quality. Only the most basic of transitions, cuts, and title creation are available. Fine for a home movie maybe, but not something you'd want to use for creative content.

 

Given the number of FREE software available for editing - many of which offer super-professional tools like Hitfilm Express, there is little reason to wait and use Youtube's editor.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[George Ebersole]

I stand corrected.

[Mark Dunn]

I'd stray far away. Anything you upload there gets compressed to hell before giving a "final render". The tools it offers there are on the level of Windows Movie Maker if not lower.

Youtube plays out HD material in HD. But I don't think you can readily download from youtube in HD, so using it as an editing program is a bit of a non-starter.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Mark Dunn

[Tyler Purcell]

I've said it before on other sites, and I'll say it here: Mac is for people who like 'plug-n-play-n-forget-it' computing. They don't want to deal with any technical jargon. They just want to turn it on and it work for them. Mac is great at that, but it's also a limiting factor in that it prevents a lot of the customization available to those who WANT to tinker with their computers to get more power from them.

Mac's are for people who want to do work. I don't have the time to deal with tinkering, downloading poop when it doesn't work and rebooting. I have a full-time 24/7 rendering computer chewing away at projects all the time and I have my main workstation which crunches stuff that needs to get out the door ASAP. I can't afford even ONE crash or re-boot, my systems need to work flawlessly every second of every day.

 

To build a system that works that well, with very good memory control, takes an integration of hardware and software that simply doesn't exist on windows. THIS is the reason professionals use Mac's, because frankly, they just work! The moment you turn it on, the system is ready to download the programs you need and you're up and running.

 

In terms of tinkering, I already explained the power of my Mac Pro tower and it's ability to be upgraded. So if you WANT a tinkering computer, Apple "did" sell them for two decades. Even their new Mac Pro, can have it's processor, memory, boot drive and even GPU's, upgraded. I don't know what else you'd need/want? It's all standard Intel components, just buy an upgrade, plug it in and you're running. Plus... mac os is based on Linux, you know... the "dream" operating system. I learned on DOS, but I never understood why people used it because the Mac OS was so much elegant. When Apple moved to Linux around 2000, it was a huge shift, but it was smart because NOW, the user can program anything they want simply by changing the .plist files in text edit. It's an unbelievably powerful operating system as a consequence.

 

With windows servers, the rule of thumb is to run ONE TASK on each blade. This is to prevent conflicts and to keep it more stable. With Mac OS server, you can run the ENTIRE SUITE of server applications on ONE blade. DHCP/DNS/Open Directory/File Sharing/App Store/iCloud bundle/Time Machine, etc... on ONE blade! I've had 50 users access ONE BLADE on a 1 RU blade on the mac side, and we had 5 blades to do the same thing when we were a windows shop. By the way, that Mac server ran for 5 years without a single glitch. Before we powered it down when the company went out of business, we looked at the log files, it had been on for 674 days straight.

 

Where I agree that windows has a lot of "options" in the GUI that mac's don't have (easy to manipulate in .plist files). However, 99.9% of the time, you will never need or use them. The options are actually so confusing, they did away with much of them after windows 7 and in windows 10, forgetaboutit. Now it's big dumb buttons, they're trying to make it so simple a baby could set up the computer and unfortunately, that's the future of our technology. I can't stand windows 10, it's an abomination of an operating system. At least Apple has stood by it's GUI and kept improving, rather then trying to re-invent the wheel like Windows did.

 

BTW, I'm still running an operating system from 2010 on my laptop and one from 2012 on my edit bay, with all the new software.

[Brian Drysdale]

Professionals also use PCs with Windows and Linux for various post production operations, the choice is up to the system operator and what meets their requirements.

[Daniel D. Teoli Jr.]

Is there a list of inexpensive basic movie editing software to sift through? I just gave a quick look to Sony Vegas and the $600 price tag was a turn off. I just like to add a basic title to some video and edit some existing MP4 video. I also have a bunch of TIFF files from film scans and I'd like to assemble the TIFF series into a MP4 as well as a higher res DVD.

 

Is there some basic video editing software in the $150 range you could recommend?

 

Thanks

[Brian Drysdale]

Apart from Movie Maker and iMovie you could look at these:

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/inexpensive-video-editing-software-guide,review-33130.html

 

Free Higher end NLE options:

 

https://www.provideocoalition.com/free-video-editing-software-2017-guide/

[Daniel D. Teoli Jr.]

Thanks Brian.