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Igor Trajkovski

Hitler's Rant about the Canon 5DMK4 Video Features

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Bit unfair about the crop factor, I thought. Not as big a deal as everyone makes out.

 

Otherwise yes, one would have hoped for log and 4K HDMI.

 

P

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I agree, the main appeal to the Canon 5D video is that full-frame shallow-focus look, otherwise there are plenty of other options that are easier and better.

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It wouldn't be quite so bad if it was a mirrorless mount (like the GH4/BMPCC/A6300 has), as at least you could then speedbooster it!

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5D is and always will be the entry point for full frame still photography. The fact that it had any video features to start with was an after thought, and they are not going to make the 5D an incredible video camera that would compete against their Cinema lines. So if you do a lot of stills work and need to shoot an occasional video its a good camera. If you are primarily working on moving pictures then look elsewhere. I own a 5D MKIII that I bought for shooting stills, not the video, but I will occasionally shoot video on it as a BTS camera or a desperate B camera if I need one badly.

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Canon still hasn't woken up to the fact, they're not good at making video cameras. Everything they make that shoots moving images, is substandard in one regard, all the way back to their first video cameras. They always skimp on something critical and it leaves their cameras lacking compared to the competition. It's true that all cameras within the consumer price bracket, must skimp on something. Yet, the 30 some odd years Canon has been making consumer video cameras, they haven't yet learned what's important. What frustrates me is that Canon is willing to re-tool the entire factory to make a new body, which is an astronomical cost. Yet, they are unwilling to use a better processor, constantly resorting to their own in-house Digic processor, which I've always disliked.

 

Canon has purposely crippled this new cameras abilities so people will be pushed towards the super expensive and ultra-useless MPEG disaster C series. I understand if Canon had a phenomenal video camera and didn't want to share technology. They simply don't have that, so the underwhelming C series is considered the highest tech they have, so the still cameras must have "worse" tech. So now, they push out yet another camera that's still 3 years behind its competitors on the video side. Heck, it's even behind on the still side, 30MP is nothing in todays word.

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Although the C series is a popular documentary camera for broadcast work, which basically does the job required of it.

 

Right, but there are FAR better 1080P cameras.

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Right, but there are FAR better 1080P cameras.

As far as long-take documentary and outdoor shooting, what are some things you feel are better in that price range of under $2500?

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Right, but there are FAR better 1080P cameras.

 

No doubt, but they probably want a cost effective, reliable workhorse with an undemanding workflow. There is also brand loyalty involved.

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I didn't get the C300 when it was first released and I continue to not get the series today, for all of the reasons given in this thread. The pictures can be very, very nice, because Canon knows how to make sensors. Otherwise, however, the spec is anemic, the layout is unnecessarily difficult, they're expensive for what they are and the tricks such as advanced autofocus are likely to emerge elsewhere at some point.

 

They do make very nice pictures, but then again so does the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera.

 

P

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The C300 was the first s35 sensor ,doc,corp level camera with 50 Mbps..broadcast standard for HD.. thats the secret of its success.. plus a very pleasing picture.. the fact it was designed to resemble a kettle.. XLR inputs right on the top of a module .. and a sub standard consumer EVF placed right at the back .. forcing the operator to hold it out in front of them.. is some how unbelievable .. all they had to do was make the F3 better.. i.e. a box longer than it is tall with a VF on the side..

 

Even with the Mrk II they have done weird stuff.. like centre crop is only active in HFR mode.. even though you can set the camera to 24/25/30 in that mode.. there is no audio.. why?? the F5/55 had that from the start.. and Amira have recently belatedly added it in the last up date.. let alone they just copied the same Kettle Cam design.. there really does seem to be something amiss at the Canon Video Camera dept..

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What kills me about Canon is they have pretty good color science and excellent imagers. Yet they're hindered by poor electronics, mid-grade codec's and over-all poor design.

 

Personally, I'd rather have 2/3" 3xCCD camera with a B4 mount, all the codecs in the world in a big box that goes on your shoulder, then a design that failed in the film camera days (holding the camera in front of you), with all the issues talked about above.

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People still do these videos??

 

Two thousands years from now and that might be all Hitler is known for.... those meme videos! (well, hopefully not)

Edited by David Peterson

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What kills me about Canon is they have pretty good color science and excellent imagers. Yet they're hindered by poor electronics, mid-grade codec's and over-all poor design.

 

Personally, I'd rather have 2/3" 3xCCD camera with a B4 mount, all the codecs in the world in a big box that goes on your shoulder, then a design that failed in the film camera days (holding the camera in front of you), with all the issues talked about above.

 

 

Ok, but the question is still unanswered: what camera(s) in that price range are better?

 

I'm struggling with this as well. I'm currently trying to find a good replacement for my C100/C300 which is great for the work I do to pay bills (promos, shorts, industrial). I agree the codec is infuriating but if own one it doesn't take long to get familiar with the camera's pros/cons and you can get great images despite the codec, just don't plan on making any big changes in post if you've made a significant error. Cropped higher frame rates is pretty damn stupid of Canon but I'd still take the color science over what Sony, Blackmagic, Panasonic (not the varicam) is offering and just rent a FS7/F5/F55 for those few times when I need 120/240fps. I've also owned XL1, GL2, XHa1, 5D I & II, C100/300 so familiarity is a big factor as well. So as it is, I'm leaning towards C300 mrk II even though I share your frustrations I just don't see a better alternative.

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Personally, I'd rather have 2/3" 3xCCD camera with a B4 mount, all the codecs in the world in a big box that goes on your shoulder, then a design that failed in the film camera days (holding the camera in front of you), with all the issues talked about above.

 

I don't disagree, the C300 is more a Bolex style of operation, which is fine for 30 second shots, but not those lasting a few minutes. This won't be helped if there is a microphone on top. I suspect this may have been influenced by the DSLR users who don;t know any other arrangement, although there now is an aftermarket in rods and bits and pieces to allow some sort of shoulder mounting. Sadly, it wasn't part of the original design.

 

A box isn't modular unless there are other modules designed for it to make it a system, not third party fixes.

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Hi Seb

 

I think you have answered your own question.. its a good point if you are already familiar with a camera,s menu,s and foibles there is a big argument for staying with it.. and if you want a 4K sensor and "real" log.. Clog2.. then the C300 II would seem the best bet.. the good news is they keep on getting cheaper and you could probably talk them down a bit as they are not flying off the shelfs..

 

Best bang for the buck at this level camera has to be the Fs7.. I know alot of people who have taken the plunge and jumped ship .. it has its problems too.. for that price its pretty amazing.. I think Sony could have sold them for more but wanted to bury the C300 that had such a big grip of the 1080 market.. if Canon had made a mrkII with 4K/ and real LOG.. and totally re designed the body .. Sony would have been left in the dust.. but they didnt ..

Edited by Robin R Probyn
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As far as long-take documentary and outdoor shooting, what are some things you feel are better in that price range of under $2500?

 

The C100 mk1 (without DPAF) is the only C series which is inside that price range.

 

For a little bit more you could get the JVC LS300 which beats the C100's pants off with its list of specs:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1096581-REG/jvc_gy_ls300_4kcam_handheld_s35mm.html

 

Or you could easily pick up a secondhand Sony PMW-F3 with a BMD VA or Samurai Blade.

 

And if you go with mirrorless, then a Panasonic GX80/GH4/G7/a7Smk1 are all solid choices.

 

Secondhand Sony FS100 can also easily be found for that price, or even a FS700 with a bit of lucky!

 

And of course you could get **THREE** Panasonic AF100 for the price of that one C100!

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Best bang for the buck at this level camera has to be the Fs7.. I know alot of people who have taken the plunge and jumped ship .. it has its problems too.. for that price its pretty amazing.. I think Sony could have sold them for more but wanted to bury the C300 that had such a big grip of the 1080 market.. if Canon had made a mrkII with 4K/ and real LOG.. and totally re designed the body .. Sony would have been left in the dust.. but they didnt ..

The FS7 is a fine ENG camera for 1080p broadcast stuff. It's just not very good outside of that world. It's a swiss army knife that does everything, but nothing very well. Even with the RAW/Pro Res board, it's still pretty noisy and has all the standard Sony highlight clipping issues.

 

Having just shot two pretty large projects back to back, one on the C300MKII and one on the FS7 with Pro Res board, I vastly prefer the C300MKII. It has a superior image, uses standard CF cards, doesn't destroy batteries and is a lot smaller. The FS7 is a better ENG camera, but for narrative, the C300MKII beats it, even with iFrame MPEG capture.

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haha I think we have been down this road before :)..

 

Well its 4K camera too.. natively actually.. and quite alot of narrative stuff has been shot with it.. but yes of course its not an Alexa. I was talking about a grade up from the C100/300.. and I think its about 1/2 or less the list price of the C300II.. and it has centre crop .. !

 

Wouldn't say the Fs7 is much bigger.. its certainly not as tall.. :)

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'Even Nikon doesn't use MPEG anymore'

 

That part was pretty funny... Canon make great stills cameras - and back when they where basically the pioneers of DSLR video they had descent cameras for that as well. However, there are so many better options in the DSLR/Mirrorless world now that going with Canon over another manufacturer (unless you already own thousands in Canon glass) is pretty stupid. Canon has neglected their DSLR video line for a long time, precisely because they believe that adding more cine features would cut into their cine line of overpriced cameras.

 

Meanwhile, Panasonic actually listened to their consumers - and made the prosumer GH4 a very robust 4k camera with many professional cine features, des[pite having their own Cine line of cameras - camera's that are usually even more affordable than the Canon options. In fact, of all the DSLR's right now, I'd say the GH4 still has some of the most robust features for professional video - and at 1/3-1/4 the cost of others.

 

Then again, I never was a Canon fan - even for my still photography, so take this rant with a grain of salt.

Edited by Landon D. Parks

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Wouldn't say the Fs7 is much bigger.. its certainly not as tall.. :)

It is when you add the extension box to the back, which I feel is critical to making that camera look decent, thanks to the addition of "proper" codec's.

 

I mean lets face it, the only people buying camera's with XLR inputs, built in filter wheel and extremely limited MPEG recording, are people doing run and gun productions, which is in the same world as ENG in my opinion. The FS7 works fine with static talking heads and running around in a war zone, neither one of which is being blown up to a 70+ ft wide screen.

 

"Cinema" cameras are an entirely different animal. Some cameras like the F5 and F55, are a hybrid between ENG and Cinema. However, when you shoot "cinema" you really need RAW or extremely high quality, full bandwidth recording, like Pro Res XQ as mostly all products made for cinema are heavily manipulated in post and need that bandwidth. Coloring the FS7 and C300MKII stuff (with native codecs) is a lesson in futility. Might as well be wearing a straight jacket and coloring with my nose.

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