Aaton Minima

[Attila Somos]

Aaton A-Minima kit including :

A-Minima body S16

Aaton power base

SD video assist

2 magazines 60m with spools

No batteries

11000GBP

attila@filmgears.co.uk

[Juan Dorado]

Is it in the Uk?

Edited June 10, 2024 by Juan Dorado

[Elliot Holbrow]

🥵

Do Kodak still sell 200ft’s?

[Gautam Valluri]

10 hours ago, Elliot Holbrow said:

🥵

Do Kodak still sell 200ft’s?

Not anymore but some labs will wind down 400ft rolls down to 200ft on special request, provided they have sufficent minima rolls.

[Uli Meyer]

11 hours ago, Elliot Holbrow said:

🥵

Do Kodak still sell 200ft’s?

Kodak at Pinewood will wind down to Minima spools if you can provide them.

[Tyler Purcell]

... and if nobody knows this, the spools were designed for 10 uses or less. They actually warp over time and we've had major issues getting older spools to work. I have many that are so warped, they won't take up film anymore. Fine for supply, but eventually we will run out of good, non-warped spools. We've been trying to develop a replacement, but it's been tricky because the stock spools are extremely thin plastic, something difficult to re-create without using the same method of manufacturing they used. 

[Aapo Lettinen]

2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

We've been trying to develop a replacement, but it's been tricky because the stock spools are extremely thin plastic, something difficult to re-create without using the same method of manufacturing they used. 

maybe someone should just convince the original manufacturer to sell one of their original injection molds so that higher quality new ones could be manufactured?

People seem to be prepared to pay premium for these cameras so I can't imagine it being an issue to arrange higher quality new spools with money. I mean someone could hand cut and machine them out of solid plastic bar if enough money is presented... or make new injection molds, even if expensive, but people do this stuff... if money is involved :D

[Tyler Purcell]

10 minutes ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

maybe someone should just convince the original manufacturer to sell one of their original injection molds so that higher quality new ones could be manufactured?

Kodak made them. I highly doubt they'd sell those tools. 

10 minutes ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

People seem to be prepared to pay premium for these cameras so I can't imagine it being an issue to arrange higher quality new spools with money. I mean someone could hand cut and machine them out of solid plastic bar if enough money is presented... or make new injection molds, even if expensive, but people do this stuff... if money is involved 😄

New molds... it maybe the only way. 

[Gautam Valluri]

A few months ago @Kamran Pakseresht was working on possibly 3D printing new A-Minima spools:

It would be really interesting if this works, would delight many A-minima users.

[Pipo Dassesse]

41 minutes ago, Gautam Valluri said:

A few months ago @Kamran Pakseresht was working on possibly 3D printing new A-Minima spools:

It would be really interesting if this works, would delight many A-minima users.

for your information, as Aäton went bankrupt years ago, and Kodak does not manufacture those spools anymore, yes indeed those (old) spools are becoming useless with the time, due to the very thin plastic injection giving no less than film jams... a frind of mine tired a 3D print but it did not work ... BUT... ONE laboratory in Belgium sells a "full package" system: original film stock + spools (double) winding + processing + 2K/4K scan ...

ALL to be paid on purchase to make sure that they got their own spools back with exposed negative (they even supply the empty spools ! 

Lab name: COLOR BY DEJONGHE

Someone  tried to ask  Jean-Pierre Beauvaila @ Aäton (years ago) who manufactured their original spools, no answers ever zand we believed he bought them from Kodak when he first designed the Minima camera project

[Dirk DeJonghe]

Unfortunately, I had about 40 A-Minima spools available that were offered to customers loaded with fresh filmstock, including processing and scanning. Sold all in about three batches but after three years haven't seen one single spool back for processing and scanning. On the black market, the spools are worth more than the price they paid for processing and scanning.

Lesson learned.

My intention was to keep the A-Minima owners operational as long as possible.

[Tyler Purcell]

10 hours ago, Dirk DeJonghe said:

On the black market, the spools are worth more than the price they paid for processing and scanning.

Yea it's crazy. 

We are working on a solution. We have tried one thus far, but it's been so-so. We are going to invest heavily into developing something, but ETA maybe next year. They also won't be cheap. Kodak made the original spools and I bet they took a loss on every one. 

[Luis Hartmann]

3 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Yea it's crazy. 

We are working on a solution. We have tried one thus far, but it's been so-so. We are going to invest heavily into developing something, but ETA maybe next year. They also won't be cheap. Kodak made the original spools and I bet they took a loss on every one. 

Would there be any way to modify the mags and use 100ft spools?

[Mark Dunn]

1 hour ago, Luis Hartmann said:

Would there be any way to modify the mags and use 100ft spools?

I have never seen a Minima so this isn't from experience.

The flexible spools are integral to the design. AFAICS the spool flanges are actually driven by the sprocket edges, and they are spread apart slightly at the feed and take-up points, then bend back flat to maintain the light seal. So the entire film transport depends on the size and flexibility of the spool flanges. There's no way to make it work with metal spools.

Effectively it make the camera reliant on proprietary "software". It needed a thriving 16mm infrastructure, which no longer exists, and relied on a special item from another manufacturer, and that manufacturer's willingness to support it, also gone.

[Aapo Lettinen]

22 minutes ago, Mark Dunn said:

I have never seen a Minima so this isn't from experience.

The flexible spools are integral to the design. AFAICS the spool flanges are actually driven by the sprocket edges, and they are spread apart slightly at the feed and take-up points, then bend back flat to maintain the light seal. So the entire film transport depends on the size and flexibility of the spool flanges. There's no way to make it work with metal spools.

Effectively it make the camera reliant on proprietary "software". It needed a thriving 16mm infrastructure, which no longer exists, and relied on a special item from another manufacturer, and that manufacturer's willingness to support it, also gone.

It would be possible to make a separate new magazine which has its own takeup motor. That could use either core loads or normal metal daylight spools.

Ruins the compact-ness of the original camera design but entirely possible to make. Expensive but so are the alternatives like trying to replicate the original injection mold quality and material, making new injection molds, etc.

The bright side of a completely newly made magazine would be that the camera would be much easier to load. I hear people using toothpicks and whatnot to load the A-minimas because the film transport is so tiny that their fingers wont fit 😄

[Aapo Lettinen]

1 minute ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

It would be possible to make a separate new magazine which has its own takeup motor. That could use either core loads or normal metal daylight spools.

Ruins the compact-ness of the original camera design but entirely possible to make. Expensive but so are the alternatives like trying to replicate the original injection mold quality and material, making new injection molds, etc.

The bright side of a completely newly made magazine would be that the camera would be much easier to load. I hear people using toothpicks and whatnot to load the A-minimas because the film transport is so tiny that their fingers wont fit 😄

Price estimate maybe 3k ?? At least under 4k.

Not difficult to make electrically so probably my skills not needed, additionally I don't have A-minima so I don't personally need these mags. but if someone would donate me a working camera I could figure out something too 😄

[Luis Hartmann]

28 minutes ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

Price estimate maybe 3k ?? At least under 4k.

Not difficult to make electrically so probably my skills not needed, additionally I don't have A-minima so I don't personally need these mags. but if someone would donate me a working camera I could figure out something too 😄

I'm sure you'd find someone willing to drop 4k on this, hell if I had still had my Minima, I would consider it, if it would mean I could rid myself of the anguish of using the 200ft spools.

[Okto Simaia]

9 hours ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

It would be possible to make a separate new magazine which has its own takeup motor.

Ruins the compact-ness of the original camera design but entirely possible to make.

I don’t think it would have to alter the compactness much. Flat motor on each side, like the spindle motors in computer disk drives, and some circuitry to drive them seems like it should do the trick. Wouldn’t need to add more than an inch or so to the thickness of the magazine and nothing to the profile, if done cleverly. 
 

I’d love to design such a thing, but I don’t have Magazine For Rare Camera To Be Modified And Potentially Destoyed During Prototyping money. 😛

Edited June 13, 2024 by Okto Simaia

[Aapo Lettinen]

3 hours ago, Okto Simaia said:

I don’t think it would have to alter the compactness much. Flat motor on each side, like the spindle motors in computer disk drives, and some circuitry to drive them seems like it should do the trick. Wouldn’t need to add more than an inch or so to the thickness of the magazine and nothing to the profile, if done cleverly. 
 

I’d love to design such a thing, but I don’t have Magazine For Rare Camera To Be Modified And Potentially Destoyed During Prototyping money. 😛

it would need brushless motor on takeup side, then friction disc, new axle with encoder to measure slipping rate, control electronics. the new axle having square section for daylight spool and removable core adapter just like Arri etc mags.

The feed side would just need new axle with square section and the removable core adapter. Friction disc needed but nothing else.

I am absolutely sure it is not possible to add these to the original magazine (no room for this type of axles which allow core adapters, the motors and all the electronics would need to be external add-ons) . The original magazine is pretty much a tin can with two axles to stack the daylight spools... never meant to add anything to it or having longer axles and more practical tin cans can be made easily .

Much better to make completely new magazine which has separate compartments for feed and takeup, a guide roller or two to aid the film path and enough room to add the motor and additional stuff

[Aapo Lettinen]

2 minutes ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

The feed side would just need new axle with square section and the removable core adapter. Friction disc needed but nothing else

brushless motor on the feed side without friction disc would make it possible to electronically control the feed side friction (by using the motor as a shunted generator and altering the circuit resistance). Probably not practical but it is possible to do if found useful

[Tyler Purcell]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:57 PM, Luis Hartmann said:

Would there be any way to modify the mags and use 100ft spools?

Sadly, there is no easy way to do this. The film actually runs backwards in the camera. The perf would be on the wrong side if you attempted to use daylight spools. I have some ideas on how to make it work, but it would require a modification to the camera body and it would be permanent. It's possible for sure, but it would be tricky for owners who didn't want to make this mod AND it would be expensive because it would require an all new mag system. 

[Robin Phillips]

I kinda love how this sales post has become a conversation about how to re-engineer the a minima

[Okto Simaia]

5 hours ago, Robin Phillips said:

I kinda love how this sales post has become a conversation about how to re-engineer the a minima

Us mechanical designers just can’t help ourselves. 😛

[Martin Parsekian]

Also wanted to add (hopefully it’s relevant to sale) I’ve had issues re-spooling the 200’ spools. The camera looses its loop sometimes and jams. Initially I thought they would just be less daylight safe but as they wear out/ warp etc it actually seems to affect proper take-up and feed 😢 no issues shooting with expired stock rolls from Kodak 

still a veeery fun camera to shoot with! Just need a patient AC / loader 

[Aapo Lettinen]

1 hour ago, Martin Parsekian said:

Also wanted to add (hopefully it’s relevant to sale) I’ve had issues re-spooling the 200’ spools. The camera looses its loop sometimes and jams. Initially I thought they would just be less daylight safe but as they wear out/ warp etc it actually seems to affect proper take-up and feed 😢 no issues shooting with expired stock rolls from Kodak 

still a veeery fun camera to shoot with! Just need a patient AC / loader 

Plastic daylight spools tend to be problematic in general, especially if used on the takeup side. Warping spool refuses to wind the film correctly and creates a huge mess. Soviet 16mm cameras often have plastic ones but not wise to use them