"New" super-8 camera to market

[Carl Looper]

A Hypothetical camera ? "then this can be what you want this to be"

 

A wet Dream with no filming on the fly !

 

 

Here is why it is a good idea, even if it turns out to be Christopher's idea of what a wet dream might be like.

 

Making a camera is like making a movie. It's been done before, but that's no reason to stop.

 

If one were to make a new film camera, and why not (I can think of worse things that could occupy your time) then making a new Super8 camera is just as good a place to start as anywhere else. But a Super8 camera is also a good idea because a Super8 camera is the closest you can get to the convenience of digital without it having to be digital.

 

So having nominated a Super8 camera as your project (whether for this reason or some othe reason) the next question might be why? There are plenty of fine Super8 cameras already out there. Well yes, but if you look at the proposed specs, there isn't any that tick all the boxes that this proposition ticks. The proposition is a better Super8 camera - not just another Super8 camera.

 

I for one, would like a better Super8 camera. For many reasons.

 

The proposition takes the idea of a Super8 camera (which remains a good idea for some types of projects) and gives it a makeover. What on earth is so wrong about that? If someone has the tools and skills to do it then good on 'em I say.

 

It's a great idea.

 

C

[Jeremy Cavanagh]

I just want vision 3 or any other negative stock in double super 8 so I can run it through my Bolex DS8.

[David Nethery]

While we're waiting ...

 

 

Does anyone know if this was a real modification or are these just Photoshopped imaginings of what could be ? --

 

Canon 1014 and 814 modified for 200 ft. magazine

 

(that link is the Google Translate version of the page from Japanese to English)

 

The page makes it as if this modification was actually done .

 

 

Original page :

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~s8mmeiga/page035.html

 

 

Really ? ---

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joerg Polzfusz]

Hi,

 

While we're waiting ...

 

 

Does anyone know if this was a real modification or are these just Photoshopped imaginings of what could be ? --

 

Canon 1014 and 814 modified for 200 ft. magazine

 

these cameras really exist and have been shown in the "schmalfilm"-magazine several years ago. However it's not a 200 ft magazine! It's "only" an adapter to use Single8-carts in a Super8-camera. And they "only" have been created because Fuji continued to produce pre-striped versions of the R25N and RT200N after Kodak discontinued all its pre-striped sound-films in the mid-1990s. (Unfortunately Fuji axed its pre-striped versions a few years later, too, and discontinued all Single8-film in 2010/2012.)

 

Jörg

[David Nethery]

Hi,

these cameras really exist and have been shown in the "schmalfilm"-magazine several years ago. However it's not a 200 ft magazine! It's "only" an adapter to use Single8-carts in a Super8-camera. And they "only" have been created because Fuji continued to produce pre-striped versions of the R25N and RT200N after Kodak discontinued all its pre-striped sound-films in the mid-1990s. (Unfortunately Fuji axed its pre-striped versions a few years later, too, and discontinued all Single8-film in 2010/2012.)

 

Jörg

 

 

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure why I had "200 ft. magazine" in mind when I saw the photos. The English version by Google Translate is garbled , but I did understand that they were using Fuji Single-8 film in the magazine , so perhaps I was thinking :

Fuji Single-8 is polyester film = THINNER film = 200 ft. of film in compact magazine ?

 

 

.

[Richard Hadfield]

Fuji Single-8 is polyester film = THINNER film = 200 ft. of film in compact magazine ?

 

 

.

Kodak was able to stuff 100 ft of polyester base film in a standard Super 8 cartridge.

 

Link:http://www.super8data.com/database/film_list/film_kodak/kodak_mfx.htm

Edited August 14, 2013 by Richard Hadfield

[David Cunningham]

Nice...

 

I've heard the AGFA 200D stock can be stuffed in up to 65 or even 70 ft.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

I've heard the AGFA 200D stock can be stuffed in up to 65 or even 70 ft.

 

Unfortunately not. Even though it's polyester-based, it's nearly as thick as most acetate-based film-stocks.

[David Cunningham]

 

Unfortunately not. Even though it's polyester-based, it's nearly as thick as most acetate-based film-stocks.

 

Interesting... I had heard it was considerably thinner which was part of the reason it was so well registered compared to many acetate stocks. I've seen some amazingly stead and smooth films from it already.

[Lasse Roedtnes]

Hi All,

 

Here's a few photo's of the prototype - bear in mind that it's still work in progress, the red parts are printed plastic parts and will not be there in the final version - the body is 3mm aluminium black anodized.

 

What you get here is an exclusive sneak peak - there will be video's available and professional photo's taken once the final camera has been made and we are ready for production.

 

The photo's are taken with my mobile phone so they are not the best quality by far.

 

 

Please enjoy!

 

 

Side view of camera

As mentioned the red potentiometers will be replaced and the cover behind them will not be there as well - this will be all aluminium the reason for the cover was because there used to be an LCD display here but that was taken off.

 

The potentiometers control monitor volume for the headphone and recording gain for the microphone.

 

All functions / menus are controlled by the JOG wheel - this will not change.

There's one record button, an on/off button and a third button "Phase Advance" which is not showed here as the aluminium side used for this photo series doesn't have the hole for it.

 

 

 

 

The SD Card is popped up here (it's used for storage of audio) - when inserted it aligns with the aluminium edge of the camera.

 

 

 

On the back side here's what you get:

 

3.5mm Jack stereo line input

3.5mm Jack monitor audio for headphones

3.5mm Jack mono microphone input

Neutrik XLR + 3pin Jack for true 48V Phantom powered microphone (mono)

USB for firmware upgrade, parameter settings, audio retrieval etc.

7.4V Lithium Ion battery which will last several films worth of shooting on a single charge. (there are many different batteries in different sizes available)

 

 

 

A photo of the Lilliput monitor showing the thru-lens shot with overlaid information - right here the camera is parking it's shutter - what is not shown (because of current parking mode) is:

 

• Audio VU level
• Light level
• SD Card and audio information

Also you have the option to choose from remaining or elapsed frames.

 

 

 

Camera seen from the other side with the lid on - the white wifi antenna is also visible.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Matt but you need to go somewhere else for a c*** tease this time ^_^

 

Regards

Lasse

[David Cunningham]

Holy crap! It exists!

[Bill Rodgers]

Nice work Lasse. B)

[Heikki Repo]

Excellent! :)

[Andries Molenaar]

Nice to to see such a piece of work. No yapping but doing something rather then what most do who demand/expect new cameras.

 

Considering the compactness of the frontpanel I wonder how you designed and assembled the beam-splitter, the claw (is there one?) and the shutter. Is this a disc or small panel?

 

And how does it know what it is filming (parking) and what distance that has? As the lens is manual focus and exposure.

 

And is there a film heater like in the VIC Mekel SP-1 :)

[Jean-Louis Seguin]

Based on the pictures alone, I would say outstanding work!

With an obvious nod to the Mekel Cine-8.

 

Jean-Louis

[Heikki Repo]

And how does it know what it is filming (parking) and what distance that has? As the lens is manual focus and exposure.

 

That's film length meter, how much is remaining in the cartridge. Also, I think "parking" refers to whether or not the film is running, not to the park... :)

[Pavan Deep]

This is great, I'd love to see some footage.

 

Pav

[Phil Vigeant]

Wow.

 

This looks like a very interesting product. If you need some film materials to test with I can supply you with some different stocks. It would be very exciting to have a new Super 8 camera system in the market. Let me know how we can help .

 

Yt

Phil

 

PS: Thanx for including my Max8 invention in your design.

[Andries Molenaar]

The widened Super-8 has been around long before someone started calling it Max8 and claiming it as an 'invention'.

[Lasse Roedtnes]

Hi Andries,

 

The camera has an oscillating mirror shutter meaning:

 

There's a direct path between the lens and film when the shutter is open (exposure mode)

 

When the shutter is closed/closing it has a mirror that projects the image (from the lens) into a beam splitter.

 

- the function of the beamsplitter is:

 

1. Project light from the lens into the light sensor.
2. Project the image into the CMOS camera (through a ground glass) used as viewfinder.

There's one amazing advantage of this method which is that there's nothing between the film and lens making the recording crystal clear.

 

There's a drawback of this method as you can only use the viewfinder when the film is not being exposed (shutter closed) this means that at lower frame rates you will see flickering in the LCD (because you are only seeing with the cmos camera while the shutter is closed - when the film is exposing ie. shutter open you will see darkness/nothing) generally at frame rates above 18fps this is no issue except for extreme low light conditions where it get's harder for the cmos camera to function.

 

So what is this "Parking" thing and why is it needed?

 

When you turn on the camera (or stop a recording) the first thing the electronics does is that it advances the film a frame ahead making sure the shutter is in parked (closed) position so that you can see an image in the viewfinder lcd because of the mirror shutter operation described above.

 

The SD-CARD stores (along with audio) a log file containing information of start frame of each recording - stop frame and amount of "waisted" parking frames etc... this is useful when doing the video editing later on.

 

There's no film heater inside the camera at present time - why would you need this?

 

Also thanks for all the encuraging comments!

 

Best regards

Lasse

[Andries Molenaar]

 

There's no film heater inside the camera at present time - why would you need this?

 

Also thanks for all the encuraging comments!

 

Best regards

Lasse

Thanks for the explanation.

 

The shutter, claw, registerpin are all classic mechanical? Or was a new method applied with an electrical optical hole reader, advancer motor, register-pin and shutter actuator? If that could work.

 

The electronics are on a low power ITX board?

 

The heater is a bit of joke-reference to the Mekel SP-1 which has a heater. As this Mekel is more a lab or research machine it might wind up outside in winter and I suppose they wanted to keep the film warm and flexible. Although the heater is only near the loops and it cannot possibly heat the film when it flies by.

[Andries Molenaar]

Thanks for the explanation.

 

The shutter, claw, registerpin are all classic mechanical? Or was a new method applied with an electrical optical hole reader, advancer motor, register-pin and shutter actuator? If that could work.

 

The electronics are on a low power ITX board?

 

The heater is a bit of joke-reference to the Mekel SP-1 which has a heater. As this Mekel is more a lab or research machine it might wind up outside in winter and I suppose they wanted to keep the film warm and flexible. Although the heater is only near the loops and it cannot possibly heat the film when it flies by.

Added as the post locked out editing...

 

Businesswise you are best off when you could manufacturer a number for rentals and then batches of 5-10 or even on demand. Although people wanting one at Euro 4999 may not want to have to wait long :)

[Andreas Wideroe]

Lasse, you must surely be Norwegian? :)

Awesome work! Keep it up!

/Andreas

 

[Heikki Repo]

A few questions regarding the sound recording:

- Is it possible to record audio even when the film is not running?

- Would it be possible to have something like 5-10 sec. buffer for sound that would be saved if the filming was started?

 

For documentary shooting this could be beneficial.

[Lasse Roedtnes]

Hi Andries,

 

The mechanism is mechanical - there's several optical sensors inside but they are used for parking positioning, film speed assesment, frame counting etc.

 

The electronics inside is not PC/ITX based - it's all custom embedded based around an energy friendly ARM Cortex M3 80MHz microcontroller.

 

Regards

Lasse