Some guy sold his Ursa Mini Pro to buy an FS7

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I've never heard of anyone being "contracted" to choose a certain camera. If anything we often fight to use an arri over other systems since the arri often rents for higher.

[tom lombard]

As a newcomer, I'm puzzled why someone would want to rent a specific system just because it's more costly.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

we don't want to rent it because it's more costly, it's more costly because more people want to rent it (because it's a damned great camera system on the whole). Working with an Alexa is often a case of, it just works and looks really good.

[Tyler Purcell]

I'd like to see some evidence for this.

There is no direct evidence, it would make them AND the manufacturers look bad if the truth came out.

 

This is hollywood, everything is swept under the carpet and kept hush hush.

[Tyler Purcell]

I've never heard of anyone being "contracted" to choose a certain camera. If anything we often fight to use an arri over other systems since the arri often rents for higher.

The earlier comment stemmed from the reason why TOP theatrically bound features use (sub 4k) Arri's vs 6k or 8k Red's. The answer for the top of the top is that, a lot of them have contacts with rental houses and certain camera manufacturers.

 

From my understanding it works like actors contracts, where they have an X picture exclusivity deal.

 

A great example of this is Roger Deakins.

[Stuart Brereton]

There is no direct evidence, it would make them AND the manufacturers look bad if the truth came out.

 

This is hollywood, everything is swept under the carpet and kept hush hush.

So what you're saying is that you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim.

 

 

The earlier comment stemmed from the reason why TOP theatrically bound features use (sub 4k) Arri's vs 6k or 8k Red's. The answer for the top of the top is that, a lot of them have contacts with rental houses and certain camera manufacturers.

 

From my understanding it works like actors contracts, where they have an X picture exclusivity deal.

 

A great example of this is Roger Deakins.

Provide some proof of this please, or stop making wild claims.

[Brian Drysdale]

Rental companies have both Arri and RED Cameras. Panavision lists Arri, RED, Panasonic, Sony and Phantom cameras in their fleet.

[Aapo Lettinen]

The earlier comment stemmed from the reason why TOP theatrically bound features use (sub 4k) Arri's vs 6k or 8k Red's. The answer for the top of the top is that, a lot of them have contacts with rental houses and certain camera manufacturers.

 

From my understanding it works like actors contracts, where they have an X picture exclusivity deal.

 

A great example of this is Roger Deakins.

 

I have never heard about this either and I have worked couple of years full-time in a production company :blink:

 

Normally producers, prod managers and line producers trust the cinematographer and post people when it comes to the camera equipment and workflows... the Arri cameras for example have generally been the most practical choice for fiction here: drama, comedy, etc. as a main camera (economic and easy to shoot, reliable, great look, easy post workflow). And Red cameras (resolution and framerates and dynamic range with hdrx, even when having some problems like more expensive post and grading) or Alexa Mini for aerials.

 

On documentaries it is common to mix cameras+formats a lot depending on the shooting conditions and Sony cameras have generally been handy for our documentary stuff for being more versatile than Arri or Red stuff in wildly varying shooting situations.

documentaries use anything which does the job best and switch the brands and models whenever needed... one of the nature documentaries shooting on two Varicam35's and Varicam LT and EVA1+Shogun Inferno at the moment for dual iso advantage (lots of 50-1000 material etc)

 

still not understanding Tyler's affection towards Blackmagic stuff... they are quite OK cameras with interesting features and so but their build quality is not very good on most of their equipment and most of their stuff is targeted on indie and low budget commercial/corporate market and live use. not really pro movies :ph34r: mostly they make sense on low budget productions where one can't even afford enough cfast cards or rental lights to make a day ^_^

[Tyler Purcell]

So what you're saying is that you have absolutely no evidence to support your claim.

poop man, even if I got direct quotes from the people who told me, I couldn't post them here, nor would you believe them.

[Tyler Purcell]

I have never heard about this either and I have worked couple of years full-time in a production company :blink:

I only know about the Hollywood connections. Though if you search through history, I'm sure you'd find Arri has a few top people in Europe as well.

[Aapo Lettinen]

I only know about the Hollywood connections. Though if you search through history, I'm sure you'd find Arri has a few top people in Europe as well.

 

maybe it is a bit easier here in Europe, I don't know :lol:

the movies also generally being better (personal opinion) whenever them not trying to imitate American ones but that is another matter :lol:

[Samuel Berger]

I only know about the Hollywood connections. Though if you search through history, I'm sure you'd find Arri has a few top people in Europe as well.

 

I found a secret meeting between Hollywood's top directors and ARRI!

 

upload my pictures

[Tyler Purcell]

still not understanding Tyler's affection towards Blackmagic stuff... they are quite OK cameras with interesting features and so but their build quality is not very good on most of their equipment and most of their stuff is targeted on indie and low budget commercial/corporate market and live use. not really pro movies :ph34r: mostly they make sense on low budget productions where one can't even afford enough cfast cards or rental lights to make a day ^_^

You do know I'm right here, no reason to talk about me in the 3rd person. :P

 

I personally don't understand people's affection towards Japanese cameras. All the brands do is try to outdo one another on "features", it's all some silly game. Who can add the "coolest" and "slickest" new function to their "camera", totally forgetting that it's suppose to be a camera first... ya know, 23.98/24/25/30 frame per second? Like let's make those frame rates work REALLY GOOD first. Instead the Japanese add all these functions/features that degrade the camera's ability to capture at those frame rates, like lower bit depth and bit rate capture native. Then, I'm so over the ISO game. Nobody needs over 1600 ISO for anything but specialized image capture. If you can't light for 1600 ISO, you shouldn't be shooting anything. I shoot with natural light outside at night @ 1600 ISO and it looks great. Then there are the accessories and specialized items required to make the Japanese cameras work, from batteries/chargers and on some cameras, special capture cards.

 

In my opinion, the only reason why people use Japanese cameras is because they've had luck with them in the past, so they just continue down the same path today. Plus, lets face it, there aren't very many alternatives! I just refuse to get involved in an inner-Japanese battle between makers, where everything is changing so fast, they hardly have time to make a product really good with software updates and such, before the next product comes out and the cycle begins all over again.

[Aapo Lettinen]

it is normal thought for all production companies having good connections with rental houses and having discount %'s and deals negotiated based on the volume they use the services... this is same in all parts of the world....

I think it would maybe be cheaper to rent a RED camera here actually for fiction because they are mostly used for commercials and aerials stuff here, very few cinematographers want to shoot drama with reds here at the moment it seems.

just not practical enough to justify it, the Arris generally serve the productions better as a main camera than RED stuff.

I think the rental companies would be as happy to rent a RED package for a drama production than any other camera package with a good discounts and all but it is another matter who wants to use a RED for a drama shoot even if it's cheap and has lots of pixels ;)

[Samuel Berger]

In my opinion, the only reason why people use Japanese cameras is because they've had luck with them in the past, so they just continue down the same path today. Plus, lets face it, there aren't very many alternatives!

 

Well the quality of the Canon stuff is pretty good, I don't like the Sony stuff, as is well established. I wouldn't look twice at a Panasonic because the GH5 is not cinematic and on it and on the EVA1 it's really hard to nail the white balance. The Ursa Mini Pro is the closest I've seen to a Canon C300 Mark II and is much more cinematic than any Sony.

 

That being said, my favourite camera of all time is a Fujica ZC-1000, which is Japanese. I also love my Canon 814XLS. But those were better times.

[Aapo Lettinen]

Nobody needs over 1600 ISO for anything but specialized image capture

 

If you are shooting documentary stuff with long zoom lenses you will DEFINITELY need more than 1600 iso all the time because of the T-stops of longer zooms (like the 50-1000 Canon for example)

on the varicam35 doc they shooting lots of stuff on ISO4000 and 5000 for example

[Stuart Brereton]

poop man, even if I got direct quotes from the people who told me, I couldn't post them here, nor would you believe them.

Tyler, we unfortunately have to put up with your ill informed rants about equipment. No-one likes it particularly, but every forum has one member with opinions that outstrip their experience.

 

What we don't have to put up with is ridiculous, unsupported claims about secret Hollywood agreements. This forum is for people interested in cinematography, not morons in tinfoil hats.

 

Provide proof, or shut the **(obscenity removed)** up.

[Tyler Purcell]

Provide proof, or shut the **(obscenity removed)** up.

You're an a**hole Stuart. I'm done with you and your bullshit.

 

Only reason your on here is to question anything and everything I say.

[Samuel Berger]

Tyler, we unfortunately have to put up with your ill informed rants about equipment. No-one likes it particularly, but every forum has one member with opinions that outstrip their experience.

 

What we don't have to put up with is ridiculous, unsupported claims about secret Hollywood agreements. This forum is for people interested in cinematography, not morons in tinfoil hats.

 

Provide proof, or shut the **(obscenity removed)** up.

 

I believe a line has been crossed here, sir. I would much rather put up with unsupported claims of secret agreements than with verifiable, distasteful personal attacks. We have always been better than this.

[Aapo Lettinen]

yep, no need to be rude here!

 

Please concentrate on the CAMERA WAR like real gentlemen <_<

it is all about tactics and experience, like chess... the ones losing their temper will be disqualified and thrown to the sandbox to play with 5D markII and Windows Movie Maker for the rest of the day :lol:

 

 

p.s. one of the reasons why URSAs are not used in many "real" movies is that the sensors and user interface are just not good enough for the bigger budget A-cam use. we don't use the freaking FS7's or stuff for mainstream drama either, except when someone needs a camera which does not break a bank if something falls on it...

Edited January 23, 2018 by aapo lettinen

[Dom Jaeger]

The earlier comment stemmed from the reason why TOP theatrically bound features use (sub 4k) Arri's vs 6k or 8k Red's. The answer for the top of the top is that, a lot of them have contacts with rental houses and certain camera manufacturers.From my understanding it works like actors contracts, where they have an X picture exclusivity deal.A great example of this is Roger Deakins.

Sorry, but this sounds like complete rubbish to me.

 

Productions or cinematographers might have a relationship with a rental house, like Panavision for instance, but a rental house doesn't care what camera system you use, as long as you rent it from them. I know, because I've worked for rental houses for over 20 years, including Panavision.

 

Netflix famously has their 4K requirement, and has a long list of cameras that can be used on their productions (even Blackmagics), but that tends to work against using Alexas as A cams. They allow Alexa 65s though, as long as the budget is there (like the recent Netflix movie "Bright").

 

A camera manufacturer might have a special relationship with a famous director, like RED who made a custom camera for Fincher to use on "Mind Hunters" but the idea that Arri are paying all these productions or cinematographers to use their cameras is laughable. Do you really believe that someone like Deakins would use an inferior camera system because he has some sort of financial deal with the manufacturer? Do you really think all the talk of camera testing before a production (and actual testing that I can even say I've witnessed) is all just a smokescreen for a done deal already in place?

 

The only reason people use Alexas is because of the quality of the system itself, no ridiculous conspiracy theories required. Just ask an experienced cinematographer (like the ones on here for example).

Edited January 23, 2018 by Dom Jaeger

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Honestly I would A-Cam an Ursa; however, when you're in that territory you're more than likely going to be using an Alexa and more importantly all the other things which are built to go on it. Just realized, I'm not even sure if you can wireless run stop a Ursa off of something like a FIZ. It's almost one of those situations where its not whether or not you could; it's if you should. If you're going from a $300/day rental on an URSA to a $600/day rental for an alexa, the time saving you have on familiarity alone is worth the price difference (10 min on set when something goes sideways is worth a hell of a lot more than $300. This is also; I think, why the Reds, despite getting better market penetration still aren't the #1 camera used, despite being "cheaper" and offering more "features.") Hell even just yesterday we had to waste 3 min or so changing to resolution on the Helium a few times. Just getting into the special anamorphic menu, and those 3 minutes probably cost a solid $5000 if not more (and we had to do that because the screen futzed out).

[Stuart Brereton]

Only reason your on here is to question anything and everything I say.

 

Actually, most of my forum time over the last 14 years has been spent discussing cinematography with fellow professionals, and offering advice and help where I can. It's only comparatively recently that I've found myself having to deal with the avalanche of misleading, erroneous, and evidence free posts that you seem to trade in. I would gladly go back to interesting, intelligent discussions, but sadly I feel the need to do my bit to make sure that this forum remains an educational resource for members and visitors alike. It would be a sad day indeed if fantasists and conspiracy nuts were allowed to take over and post whatever they like without being challenged.

 

I'm sure you can agree that anyone making claims on these forums should be able to provide evidence to substantiate them. The more outlandish the claim, the heavier the burden of proof. Same rules for everyone.

[Samuel Berger]

 

Actually, most of my forum time over the last 14 years has been spent discussing cinematography with fellow professionals, and offering advice and help where I can. It's only comparatively recently that I've found myself having to deal with the avalanche of misleading, erroneous, and evidence free posts that you seem to trade in. I would gladly go back to interesting, intelligent discussions, but sadly I feel the need to do my bit to make sure that this forum remains an educational resource for members and visitors alike. It would be a sad day indeed if fantasists and conspiracy nuts were allowed to take over and post whatever they like without being challenged.

 

I'm sure you can agree that anyone making claims on these forums should be able to provide evidence to substantiate them. The more outlandish the claim, the heavier the burden of proof. Same rules for everyone.

 

That's not an apology.

[Stuart Brereton]

You are correct.