Edith blazek Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Hello, so I found a Aaton 35-iii for a decent price but I have some questions. Like how bad of a buy would it be? The reason im not super interested in say, the moviecam is that for how much it costs used, it rents way less than say, an Arri 435 which I can get for less than an sl mk2, doesn't sound like a solid investment to me, I was worried the Aaton 35-III would be similar as the Penelope rents and and arricam lt cost about the same used when fully kitted out, but the lt rents for almost $1000 more at camtec for example, so if anyone like @Tyler Purcell could give figures for how much they rent their 35-iii that would be helpful. Also, is there any way to get it to be quieter in 4 perf? I heard it's like 32db in 4 perf which for a sync sound camera is loud but knowing entire films have been shot on the 35-iii I want to give it a chance so if anyone has advice please come forth on how I can make it usable in 4 perf as that's all I was able to find of the 35-iii's available whenever it does pop up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giray Izcan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) You'll need a barney... even then, it will not be quiet enough in small and quiet rooms. Feature films probably had to go through ADR for the parts with intrusive camera noise. If you're going to be using the camera for your own projects, it is fine but don't expect much in rentals... I don't think any 35mm camera is a sound investment as an owner/operator if your goal is to rent it out and profit - including Arricams... Any proper production with budget that will be shooting on Arricams will go through a proper rental house because of the support. If a camera body fails during a production, the rental house can replace it with a working one for example. The last thing you need is to halt a production that costs thousands/millions due to a camera failure. Edited January 21, 2023 by Giray Izcan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted January 21, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted January 21, 2023 Well, I sold my 35III a while ago because honestly, 35mm is just too damn expensive to shoot and 400ft loads, even in 3 perf, are really not enough to do serious dialog scenes with. So my camera was a 3 perf, so a roll lasts around 5 min 30 seconds. I could never afford to shoot fresh 400ft rolls,, no way. I always had re-cans or short ends. This meant, my rolls were generally sub 400ft. So I'd be lucky to get 4 min out of a roll, which is about what ya get on 4 perf. Holy crap does it go by fast. Ya can't do much of a dialog scene on 4 minutes, it gets really tricky. Then if you can't finish the scene, what do you do with the 100ft or so you didn't use? Put them in cans and give them away? Shoot close up's ya don't have time to shoot? I mean it's a big problem. With 1000ft load cameras, you can load an 800ft short end and ya got quite a bit of time, especially on 3 perf. So sure, camera is heavier, and I mean MUCH heavier. But, when you're on set, time is money. The less amount of down time you have, the better. So you're always hitting this happy medium. Now with the Penelope you can do 2 perf and get 7 min rolls out of 400ft, which is a lot better. That's almost worth the smaller camera package, but if you're talking about 400ft and 4 perf, sorry... no way. So what would you use it for? The 4 perf camera is too loud to do dialog scenes. So, it's a 40fps max camera that really has no advantages over an Arri III (another small MOS camera) outside of cost. At least the Arri III can do high speed, which is nice for music videos and such. On our last short film, I had to rent an Arri III for some high speed scenes. So in the end, even the Aaton was incapable of doing everything I needed, so the money came out of my pocket anyway. My solution to having a 35mm camera sitting in my garage collecting dust, was to sell it and next time I do a 35mm film, just rent one of my friends Penelope's or Arricam's. Sure, it'll cost a few bux, but at least I won't have a camera sitting in my garage collecting dust. Remember, if ya don't use them, they will fail on ya. The belts will fail, the capacitors will fail, the clock battery will fail, the whole thing just stops working eventually and then you're spending gobs of money every time you wanna use it. Money you COULD be using, renting a camera for that 1 time a year you really wanna shoot on 35mm. Mind you, this is a speech I've given to many people and eventually they all learn; 35mm cameras are a waste of time and money to own. Nobody is going to rent them for the kind of pricing you need in order to break even. Anyone shooting on 35mm for real, is gonna use a rental house camera that is guaranteed perfect, not your camera from the garage. That's why my camera never rented, too scary to deal with. I got a few music video folks, but even they switched to 16mm eventually. Now I did shoot 3 personal narrative short films, one paid DP gig, one music video and a bunch of stuff for one of my feature documentaries with my 35III in the what, 5 years I owned it? So that's what, 5 projects in 5 years? Maybe a total of 25k feet? I shoot 40k feet of 16mm a year on average. In 2022, I was above average, working on a lot of commercials as well. My 16mm cameras are always busy, I mean literally always. Just had a friend shoot a short doc on my new Beaulieu, another friend has had my EBM BOLEX for 3 years shooting a documentary. My main XTR Package seems to never be home, it just came back from a feature and is gong on three projects back to back in Feb. I mean it's the way to go these days and all of the cool things ya wanna do, it can do. So now... the camera. I like the 35III, but it's a clunky camera. It has a lot of odd issues, from the battery digging into your face whilst shooting hand held, to the magazines disengaging when you grab them whilst running. It has A LOT of quarks, but it's still a pretty bitchin' little camera. Put it next to the competition... there is no comparison. Quick change mags, electronic counter, in 3 perf its around 28db so close to sync sound, it's very light, very small, great on batteries (integrated) and has a good viewfinder/video tap in the later configs. I would have never sold mine, but I needed the cash and again, I was never using the damn thing. It was in a case, on my shelf 95% of the time. I just hate cameras sitting around doing nothing, so that's the main reason I sold it. The new owner, I told one day I would buy it back from him. I hope that's going to happen, because I again, do like the camera quite a bit. If you know it's issues, if you can deal with them, then I think it works. But it's in no way a professional camera. It's a toy for running around doing a single hand held shot, then moving back to your Arricam for the rest of your shoot. It's that one camera you throw on a jib arm, because you didn't want to hang the Arricam. It's that camera you put on the front of a car because it's smaller and light weight. It's just a great C camera, but it's no "A" camera. It's no Arricam, Moviecam, BL, 535, etc. You can force it to play a 'B' camera, if you know it well, but you'll always need to rent an "A" camera to do real work and that's the problem with it. Love it for my single operator shows, hate it for any commercial work, it feels like you're shooting with a toy. So what would I get? I'd honestly hold out for a Moviecam SL 3 perf. There are a hand full of them around, I've seen them before. Someday someone will sell one and it's a great camera. The only down side is the video tap blows and the battery solution is non-existent, but it's for sure an "A" camera that's very small, which works well. The SLMKII is basically an Arricam LT, so good luck with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edith blazek Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 38 minutes ago, Giray Izcan said: You'll need a barney... even then, it will not be quiet enough in small and quiet rooms. Feature films probably had to go through ADR for the parts with intrusive camera noise. If you're going to be using the camera for your own projects, it is fine but don't expect much in rentals... I don't think any 35mm camera is a sound investment as an owner/operator if your goal is to rent it out and profit - including Arricams... Any proper production with budget that will be shooting on Arricams will go through a proper rental house because of the support. If a camera body fails during a production, the rental house can replace it with a working one for example. The last thing you need is to halt a production that costs thousands/millions due to a camera failure. Yeah but here's the thing, no rental house in my area has 35mm motion picture film cameras, or any motion picture film cameras for that matter, I'd be the rental house in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giray Izcan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) That may be but is there really that much demand for 35 cameras where you are? You don't think those rental houses would acquire 35 cameras if the demand was there? Like Tyler says, Aaton 35 is a specialty camera that comes handy in certain situations like A-minima cameras... great little s16 camera but, no way it's the right tool to shoot narrative stuff. I would get an Arri bl 4 or 4s or a 535 camera and rent specialty cameras like an Aaton when the need rises. At least with those cameras, you won't have to worry about the run time and sound issues while shooting narrative projects. Edited January 21, 2023 by Giray Izcan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Uli Meyer Posted January 21, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Edith blazek said: Yeah but here's the thing, no rental house in my area has 35mm motion picture film cameras, or any motion picture film cameras for that matter, I'd be the rental house in that case. What happens when the camera you just rented out, has an electrical fault and needs a speedy repair? I've often been asked if I would rent out my Arricam or 235 but I won't for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giray Izcan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 One more thing to add... Arri cameras are just simply more robust and easier to get repaired than an Aaton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted January 21, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted January 21, 2023 57 minutes ago, Giray Izcan said: One more thing to add... Arri cameras are just simply more robust and easier to get repaired than an Aaton. Exactly, plenty of techs and parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor huey Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Hey Tyler, what do you think of a movicam super america compared to a Arri BL4s converted to two perf. I found a guy with has them, but for some reason I remember were there issues with movicam super america electronics., or movie cam electonics in general? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted July 5, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted July 5, 2023 9 hours ago, victor huey said: Hey Tyler, what do you think of a movicam super america compared to a Arri BL4s converted to two perf. I found a guy with has them, but for some reason I remember were there issues with movicam super america electronics., or movie cam electonics in general? I mean the original Super America does have electronics issues. It's part of the reason why the later ones had their electronics designed by Arri. The BL4 is maybe better in that way, but honestly with these cameras being so old and worn, it's really hard to know. I personally haven't seen electronics failures in EITHER camera, but my Super America and most of the ones I've brokered over the years, always had spare boards. Neither camera in my view is workable in a modern way. I'd much rather have a Compact MKII than either one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Phillips Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 On 1/21/2023 at 1:16 AM, Edith blazek said: Yeah but here's the thing, no rental house in my area has 35mm motion picture film cameras, or any motion picture film cameras for that matter, I'd be the rental house in that case. the thing is, if you're renting you at least need to have someone else you know with the same camera nearby who rents in case yours fails. Fortunately I know folks who could potentially sub in for my cameras, but the reality is I really want to find a 2nd SR3 Adv both for parts but also as a backup camera if/when I start renting again (which sucks now, market is an order of magnitude price different from when I got my cameras). You dont want to be the only rental option for a film camera, have it fail, and then have an entire production pissed at you, especially if they get litigious. Even if your contracts are solid, someone can make your life hell if they really want. TBH I think anyone getting a private 35mm film camera these days needs to be doing it for personal projects, and maybe you'll send it out with a friend once in a while. Hell the only reason I have a 435 was because the price was right and I was able to acquire everything I needed to run motion control and stop motion, which protects me for shooting VFX stuff on film on for hire or personal 16mm projects. But I'd never have bought it if the camera hadnt been part of a pandemic liquidation sale. If you really want a personal 35mm film camera, honestly I'd be looking at a 2C or 3 with crystal base, and if you really wanna be in the rental game maybe look into lenses that you know will rent and be durable enough for rental. That being said, Alan Gordon has a 4 perf 535B for sale for under 14grand which might be a steal for a sync sound 35mm camera these days. I just would not count on one of these cameras being a money maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Aapo Lettinen Posted July 5, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted July 5, 2023 34 minutes ago, Robin Phillips said: the thing is, if you're renting you at least need to have someone else you know with the same camera nearby who rents in case yours fails. Fortunately I know folks who could potentially sub in for my cameras, but the reality is I really want to find a 2nd SR3 Adv both for parts but also as a backup camera if/when I start renting again (which sucks now, market is an order of magnitude price different from when I got my cameras). You dont want to be the only rental option for a film camera, have it fail, and then have an entire production pissed at you, especially if they get litigious. Even if your contracts are solid, someone can make your life hell if they really want. I think in a low budget rental world like that, the replacement camera can be some other model than the original one. For example just throwing a 35BL in if the Aaton35 fails. If the client has any experience with film cameras and film shooting in general they would be very happy to make the switch if the alternative is to stop the production entirely... if they continue whining then they should just pay you proper rates or go to a bigger rental house ? Purchasing multiples of same camera model is not fun for a owner-operator but purchasing many different camera models, one of each, can be useful and if there is at least two kits which are capable of sync sound the remaining one would be the backup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted July 5, 2023 Site Sponsor Share Posted July 5, 2023 On 1/21/2023 at 4:16 AM, Edith blazek said: Yeah but here's the thing, no rental house in my area has 35mm motion picture film cameras, or any motion picture film cameras for that matter, I'd be the rental house in that case. Colorlab does. Give them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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