Jump to content
Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

Hollywood's identity crisis: Actors, writers and producers warn of 'reverse racism' in the film industry

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8513727/Actors-writers-producers-warn-reverse-racism-film-industry.html

Hollywood's identity crisis: Actors, writers and producers warn of 'reverse racism' in the film industry which has created a 'toxic' climate for anyone who is a white, middle-age man.

-----------------------------

I brought up age discrimination / boomer hate a while back with getting work. Looks like skin color may be a factor as well now.  (Probably does not affect Deakins.)

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't be surprised if some clay tablet in ancient Mesopotamia had the headline "stone cutters fear jobs are being taken away by x group"...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That said, the only group about whom it is both (barely) legal and socially acceptable to hold and express prejudice, and to enact that prejudice to disadvantage members of the group, is straight, white, able-bodied, middle-class men.

Speaking as a member of the above group, it is  hard not to feel a little attacked sometimes.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same old fears and paranoia and people feeling hard done by, looking to blame somebody. No wonder populists everywhere are having a field day. The Daily Mail, or "Daily Heil", is a Tory rag known for publishing sensationalist scare stories. And sadly more and more people everywhere are keen to lap them up.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't wipe my arse with the Daily Fail:

blackshirts.png.df1eefc64ccb87523ed8b32c6475ff64.png

I can't remember where the quote came from but "When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression"

I encounter (mostly white men) moaning about losing opportunities  due to "diversity hires". This ignores the 100's (probably 1000s) of opportunities they got in the past due to the their whiteness/maleness working as an advantage. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not really commenting on the Dailymail article (haven't even read it) but rather on the current political atmosphere, seen from my perspective.

Coming from a practically (semi-)socialist Nordic country and holding to a large extent to such values myself I find it important to always seek more just, uncorrupt and humane society. And racism is always wrong, we are all individuals, not members of some stereotypical groups.

At the same time I can't help but to think there are warning signs that should be seen. For one, I hope that people are not canceled due to having a differing opinion on something or merely disagreeing with someone -- and even more I hope that we aren't thrown into a future where facts can be declared "racist" or opposition can be silenced by invoking not feeling safe. This is not to say that there aren't legitimate claims -- there are, definitely, but also the opposite is true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

You are aware that the Daily Mail is a conservative news source, right?

No idea if true or not David. That is why we discuss here. I just report what I find and we hash it out in real time.

Personally I've experienced massive prejudice with my work. But I can't say it is because I'm white. Although I've thought 'old' may be an issue.

If you look at TV David, 'blacks' and 'homosexuals' are being pushed down everyone's throat as a rate far beyond their percentage of the population. So seemed very plausible to me David.

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, Phil Connolly said:

I wouldn't wipe my arse with the Daily Fail:

Neither would I.

2 hours ago, Phil Connolly said:

I encounter (mostly white men) moaning about losing opportunities

The problem is, they absolutely are. I could name an organisation - of which I am a member - which runs events from which straight white able-bodied men are banned for being straight white able-boidied men. This is not a matter of opinion, this is a matter of fact. At the very least, this gives ammunition to organisations just like the Daily Mail because it's a completely valid criticism.

Please tell me what I should say to a young, straight, white, able-bodied guy when he asks me why he can't go to certain events.

One common response to this is that, as you (almost) said, straight, white, able-bodied men have historically enjoyed advantage. Emphasis: historically. I would be pleased to see evidence that it is still the case and to what extent.

Without that evidence, you are arguing for punishing a group of people as a form of ersatz revenge for the misdeeds of others.

If it's not obvious why that's a problem, I can't help you.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, I'm not fan of positive discrimination either, it gives the Mail ammunition and is potentially patronising for the people its seeks to help. No one wants to be the "diversity hire" people want to be hired on their own merits.

I was just making the point that we are still a long way from white straight males being the most oppressed group. If you look at the data from 2019: https://socialsciences.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/UCLA-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2019-2-21-2019.pdf

Both women and minorities are underepresented in many key roles, particularly in more senior production roles. It's not a "historical" issue it's still happening now.

18 minutes ago, Phil Rhodes said:

The problem is, they absolutely are. I could name an organisation - of which I am a member - which runs events from which straight white able-bodied men are banned for being straight white able-boidied men. This is not a matter of opinion, this is a matter of fact.

And no doubt that sucks, I've never been a fan of positive discrimination. I'm taking issue with the daily mail idea that white men are somehow "more oppressed" or "disadvantaged" - a quick scan of the Oscar/Bafta nominations each year will tell you otherwise.

In our own career we have no idea if we benefited from our gender/race/social standing, we get a job - we assume its fully on merit.  But you don't know.

Yes, your excluded from X as stated, but you can't tell how many things you were able to access that others were potentially excluded due to race of gender. I once took a job and the owner of the small company told me day 1 of the job, that he'd picked me partially because in his own words "I would never hire a woman". . 

But one way of making steps in the right direction is accepting there is a problem.  Claiming white males are the new most oppressed group in our industry does not bear out. Take cinematography, how many oscars were won by people other than white men?

That said I do agree it can feel like your under attack from the "woke police".  In general I agree that sometimes you can feel its not that cool to be a "white male" right now.  We are under attack because of our position in a system that we never personally set up or endorsed.  But I think a lot of that is Daily Mail type posturing and some of these new issues we now face as white men (those of us that are that), it's still less than what many ethnic minorities and women encounter. 

Personally, I don't need to be included in everything, there is nothing wrong with setting up organisations/seminars etc... to support certain sectors of the population. I'm not allowed to join my local over 50's tennis club.. it doesn't bother me. There are plenty of tennis clubs that allow 40 somethings like me in (and I hate tennis)

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

If you look at TV David, 'blacks' and 'homosexuals' are being pushed down everyone's throat as a rate far beyond their percentage of the population. So seemed very plausible to me David.

What do you mean "pushed down everyone's throat'? Because you don't want to see 'blacks' and homosexuals'? We're a long way from acceptance and equality if people are bothered by this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Phil Connolly said:

Both women and minorities are underepresented in many key roles, particularly in more senior production roles. It's not a "historical" issue it's still happening now.

 

Possibly, but it's not really clear by how much, particularly as regards the comparative psychology of men and women. 

3 hours ago, Phil Connolly said:

In our own career we have no idea if we benefited from our gender/race/social standing, we get a job - we assume its fully on merit.  But you don't know.

And equally, the vast majority of cases people won't know if they've been the victim of racism (sexism, homophobia, etc) either, because where it is done, it is done on the quiet.

So, it's possible for people to be victims of prejudice and not know it. 

Unfortunately, and this conclusion is anathema to many, this means it's also possible for someone to claim to have been the victim of prejudice, and for that person to be wrong.

The logic is inescapable. You're right, no, we don't have any idea, and neither does anyone else, regardless of their ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc.

3 hours ago, Phil Connolly said:

some of these new issues we now face as white men (those of us that are that), it's still less than what many ethnic minorities and women encounter. 

Maybe so, but that doesn't make it OK. This is (despite all the posturing that goes on) not a competition to figure out who's worst off. Prejudice is bad; disadvantaging someone because of an accident of birth is not OK. 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, David Mullen ASC said:

You are aware that the Daily Mail is a conservative news source, right?

To bolster David's point, alongside their political bias they also tend to publish factually inaccurate material: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

Other than that though, I'm going to stay of out of this as I lack the knowledge, experience, and especially eloquence to speak any further.

Edited by Brett Allbritton
It seems that this thread has the potential to get quite heated, and really I just wanted to share a valuable online resource. I wanted to clarify that I don't want to join in on further arguments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't the word "Reverse racism" suggest that racism can only apply to someone who is not white? However, Caucasian is a race. I'm not quite sure I understand the article title.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I've experienced the anti-white, straight male thing in two entirely separate jobs/careers. I've experienced racism in the workplace, more than once and even with violence threatened, and I'm not racist, sexist, ageist or any other ist myself. I've experienced sexism for years in the workforce. Fortunately now, after ages (more than a decade) I finally am seeing things improving, strange to say -- in the particular area in which I work. Men are now not being looked down upon in my area but I can sense their stock is rising. Why? Because men have been forced to show that they are decent, hard working and fair. And employers are noticing. And toxic people who want to create division are slowly being found out.

So there's hope.

Perhaps in cinematography there are some rough years ahead, but in the industries I've worked in these things, well, the ground has already now been covered so to speak.

Also, one comment about politics and the media.

Yes, there are many poor newspapers, but the thing is, they are on both 'sides' of the debate. Don't be too one-eyed in your outlook is my advice, fwiw. Look at opposing views in the media. At least read or listen to what they are saying. Weigh it up. The real truth is often more complex than journalists know. Journalists and media company owners are just people ... and we already know that real people have weaknesses. Journalists are not higher priests of truth.

Also, life is too complex to just write something or someone off because it is "conservative."

The real issue is good and bad. What is really good? That's a question not often best left to be answered by a (bloody) journalist.

Excuse my French.

Edited by Jon O'Brien

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

No idea if true or not David. That is why we discuss here. I just report what I find and we hash it out in real time.

Personally I've experienced massive prejudice with my work. But I can't say it is because I'm white. Although I've thought 'old' may be an issue.

If you look at TV David, 'blacks' and 'homosexuals' are being pushed down everyone's throat as a rate far beyond their percentage of the population. So seemed very plausible to me David.

Well I think you have to consider the source dont you .. you have no idea about this" newspaper" , and I use the term very loosely .. might have been an idea to do some reaseach sir.. then you could have saved your time ..

Had you read an article about Jews taking our jobs in the Daily Nazi in 1937, would you think it was worth discussing .. the Daily Mail is a fascist rag, catering to the very lowest pond scum in the UK.. its full of racist, misogynist crap ..

 Im an all time champion of watching TV, Netflix .Hulu, Amazon got it all..  and I can assure you "blacks" and "homosexuals " are a tiny percentage in anything like lead roles in any TV series / programs .. except the parts of degenerate thugs ..  I wonder what world are you living in.. ? 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People need to be keen on not confusing poor attempts at affirmative action with the realities which still exist in many workforces.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Robin R Probyn said:

Well I think you have to consider the source dont you .. you have no idea about this" newspaper" , and I use the term very loosely .. might have been an idea to do some reaseach sir.. then you could have saved your time ..

Had you read an article about Jews taking our jobs in the Daily Nazi in 1937, would you think it was worth discussing .. the Daily Mail is a fascist rag, catering to the very lowest pond scum in the UK.. its full of racist, misogynist crap ..

 Im an all time champion of watching TV, Netflix .Hulu, Amazon got it all..  and I can assure you "blacks" and "homosexuals " are a tiny percentage in anything like lead roles in any TV series / programs .. except the parts of degenerate thugs ..  I wonder what world are you living in.. ? 

No, that is for the forum to decide Robin, not me.

Just on the news (PBS) was how media companies are eliminating white hires and mandating 25% to 50% be spent on color / other than white for various positions , scrips, productions, etc. I have no problem with conservatives or liberal views. The only problem is when the claims are lies and when the views are forced down my throat. 

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Now, any of you familiar with Amazon's 'Cracka' series? That is where white supremists go back in time and get enslaved by blacks. I thought I read one of the films promotion lines as...'you raped our daughter, now we will rape yours' or something like that. 

There is no racist backlash to Cracka. And personally I don't see why there should be. I've always told the forum an artist needs to room to work and explore various possibilities.  In short, my view is, if it is legal do what you like.

You don't hear any outrage over Cracka...huh. As Donny Trump Jr. recently said regarding Instagram's 'Mute Whites' option, if it is against whites...it isn't racist.

Edited by Daniel D. Teoli Jr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said:

As Donny Trump Jr. recently said regarding Instagram's 'Mute Whites' option, if it is against whites...it isn't racist.

Racist =/= Prejudice..........

I'm wasting my time, no way Tim Tyler let's this thread make it to August.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Glidecam



    Serious Gear



    Abel Cine



    Metropolis Post



    Ritter Battery



    Just Cinema Gear



    Paralinx LLC



    The Original Slider



    Rig Wheels Passport



    New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment



    G-Force Grips



    Broadcast Solutions Inc



    Visual Products



    CineLab



    Tai Audio



    Wooden Camera



    Gamma Ray Digital Inc



    Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS



    FJS International


    Cinematography Books and Gear
×
×
  • Create New...