buying a 16mm camera

[Brian Drysdale]

I'd love too, but I'm on a tight enough budget as it is. anything on-line thats free, thats usful?

 

Google is your friend.

[connor denning]

Initially sync sound used the 60hz AC motors to drive the picture camera and optical sound camera. Al Jolson's 'The Jazz Singer' from 1927 was the first time in a nationally released film. Many people had experimented with sync sound prior, but 'The Jazz Singer' was the first time the audience heard the dialog of the actor as well as singing. Originally it was a single mono track, with a live orchestra. Eventually the orchestra tracks would be played back on set from a recording and actors would lip sync.

 

Remember, back then cameras made quite a racket. So any film recording audio had to put the camera in a box, or a blimp. This was very expensive because it now couldn't be moved around the set without huge cranes and dollies. The solution many people took was to record audio and replace it in post production. This really didn't come about until the advent of magnetic tape however, so almost all of the early sound films up to WWII, were all done with sync sound.

 

After WWII, camera technology hadn't changed much, so people experimented with dubbing or replacing all of the audio instead of blimping the cameras. This led to the technology we now know as looping or ADR (Automated Dialog Replacement). Hollywood used this technology mostly to replace audio in scenes that had bad set audio, but would generally leave everything else alone. Other countries like India, China, Japan, where they didn't have the kind of money to build huge sound stages and keep things quiet, resorted to looping all the dialog. This is why you see so many classic films, with original language, but looked dubbed. One of the most famous examples of this Goldfinger, whose accent was so bad, the filmmakers replaced his voice. You see this work done a lot in foreign films where the filmmakers hire an actor who doesn't have a native accent and/or doesn't speak the language of their film.

 

In the end, here in the states, sync sound has pretty much always been the norm. Sure there will always be occasions when things need to be cleaned up, like big stunt scenes where the audio is worthless, or even added lines with actors off screen. We always try to make the dialog sound excellent and it's very challenging. With the advent of wireless body mic's, better recording systems and quieter cameras, there is really no excuse to get it right on set. It's the best performance and most actors want to move on instead of coming back for looping later. Sure, there is still a lot of looping done, but set sound is still the primary source and has always been for this countries movies.

For some of the things I have planed get the audio right on set won't even be possible. How long dose it normally take to get lip syncing right with actors?

[JD Hartman]

What sort of filming situations (underwater?) would not lend themselves to recording a scratch track?

[Brian Drysdale]

For some of the things I have planed get the audio right on set won't even be possible. How long dose it normally take to get lip syncing right with actors?

 

Easier with ADR, doing it manually it depends on the actors, then you have to fine tune it afterwards during the edit. I did it once when I had to replace one actor's vioce with a different voice, this took hours for three or four lines of dialogue to match them correctly in the edit.

[Bill DiPietra]

Google is your friend.

 

I was about to write something similar.

 

Connor - if you are on that tight a budget, maybe you should start thinking about scaling down your production. For example, ask yourself if you really need a Steadycam shot(s) or if you can get the same emotional effect across with a different - and more cost-effective - technique.

 

There are ways of cutting costs without compromising your creative vision.

[Tyler Purcell]

For some of the things I have planed get the audio right on set won't even be possible. How long dose it normally take to get lip syncing right with actors?

If you want it not to look like some foreign language dubbed movie, it's very time consuming. You still need audio from set for the actors to listen to, so they can hear how they presented the original dialog. Then their job is to mimmic the original recording, which requires many takes. Then you've gotta figure out how to mate it to the picture, which is challenging because even if it looks perfect during the recording sessions, it's rare to BE perfect by the time you hit mixing. Generally what happens in ADR sessions is that Actors struggle to find the dynamics and emotion they had on set. If you have great actors who are fluent with ADR sessions, things are a lot easier for sure.

 

I can't put a timeframe on ADR, but it could easily take weeks for a feature.

 

[connor denning]

 

I was about to write something similar.

 

Connor - if you are on that tight a budget, maybe you should start thinking about scaling down your production. For example, ask yourself if you really need a Steadycam shot(s) or if you can get the same emotional effect across with a different - and more cost-effective - technique.

 

There are ways of cutting costs without compromising your creative vision.

Why would I not use a steadycam when I have one?

[Bill DiPietra]

Why would I not use a steadycam when I have one?

 

You said you were planning on making one. You never said you had one.

[connor denning]

 

You said you were planning on making one. You never said you had one.

I though I did. sorry.

I made one a few years ago out of a broom, tripod, lawn mower wheels, and duct tape, a lot of that that last one. I am revising a higher quality one right now. the question is how much dose an Arri 16 s/b or k-3 weight? I'd guse 12 pounds for arr, and 6-8 for k-3, but I have no idea.

[Brian Drysdale]

Film cameras on Steadicam are fitted with video assist.

[Mark Dunn]

6-8 for k-3, but I have no idea.

Yes. 7lb. with the 17-69, which is a bit under 2lb. on its own. IIRC the 16S is no heavier without the 400' mag.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Mark Dunn

[Will Montgomery]

Then their job is to mimmic the original recording, which requires many takes. Then you've gotta figure out how to mate it to the picture, which is challenging because even if it looks perfect during the recording sessions, it's rare to BE perfect by the time you hit mixing.

 

All very true. However, these days with something like Logic, it's extremely easy to make subtle adjustments to the audio to line things up better...as long as you have a natural, good set recording to base it off of. Even then it's not perfect and always better to get it right in the overdub performance whenever possible.

[Giray Izcan]

Connor, I think you should read some books first before worrying about what type of camera you should get. Buy a decent film stills camera, take pictures to learn exposure and composition.

[connor denning]

Film cameras on Steadicam are fitted with video assist.

thanks any recommendations? Again Manual lenses.

[Brian Drysdale]

Any video assist units I know are for sync sound cameras, not the cameras you're discussing.

[Tyler Purcell]

thanks any recommendations? Again Manual lenses.

Tape a gopro to the viewfinder? Run the HDMI output to a monitor.

 

Both hugely expensive solutions. This is yet another reason people buy better cameras that already have these things. The more you try to save money on the camera, the more you'll be spending on making it work properly.

[connor denning]

Tape a gopro to the viewfinder? Run the HDMI output to a monitor.

 

Both hugely expensive solutions. This is yet another reason people buy better cameras that already have these things. The more you try to save money on the camera, the more you'll be spending on making it work properly.

Those things can be done cheaper I'm fairly sure I can figure it out..

[connor denning]

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Edited April 6, 2016 by connor denning

[timHealy]

I agree with Brian. That first video in that first post is a bunch of crap. It looks to me like it was color reversal film or an edited work print with a shitty transfer. On top of that you don't know how it was compressed to video or digital format and then compressed again for the youtube format.

 

For all we know the original footage may have been super 8.

 

Just saying don't judge 16mm film and bolex by that video.

 

Best

 

Tim