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Shooting a whole Movie at a given F stop?


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I would have thought using the same f-stop could present lighting problems. Although I see his point in keeping depth-of-field constant as possible.  I prefer the idea of using similar focal length lenses in a movie, for example either wideangles or tele, so the look is constant and doesn't jar from shot to shot.

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Has nothing to do with any school, his personal view. Old school would mean oldfashioned film stock, i. e. orthochromatic, non-bloomed lenses made from only two or three sorts of glass, sunlight plus flares or carbon-arc or mercury-arc lamps.

He is right in the sense that constant f/x stops create a technical continuity but to build inner or content continuity is the far more important task. You want to build space for the action, a flow of time not too harshly overturned at every cut. Yes, that’s constructivism that prevails with fictional narrative cinema. So you need to know what you’re aiming at, what you want the public to experience, whether you’re going to pamper spectators, seduce them emotionally into your make-believe, or give them food for thought.

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Willis, like many classically trained DPs, totally controlled the light; even outdoors.

Arc lights, scrims, flags, ND filters and every tool in the grip truck would be used to force the dynamic range of the shot into the predetermined exposure range and f stop chosen.

It's not a luxury most of us have or will ever have, but they were given the vast resources to make this happen and obtain the smooth visual continuity a constant aperture affords.

Most of us have to adapt and supplement the available light;  he kicked it into submission...

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5 hours ago, Frank Wylie said:

Willis, like many classically trained DPs, totally controlled the light; even outdoors.

Arc lights, scrims, flags, ND filters and every tool in the grip truck would be used to force the dynamic range of the shot into the predetermined exposure range and f stop chosen.

It's not a luxury most of us have or will ever have, but they were given the vast resources to make this happen and obtain the smooth visual continuity a constant aperture affords.

Most of us have to adapt and supplement the available light;  he kicked it into submission...

Point taken !

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Well, if your preferred stop is near wide-open like f/2.8 then it just means using ND filters in brighter conditions. Frederick Elmes did something similar on his movies, keeping to the same f-stop.

Deakins says he often uses a deeper stop outdoors in daylight because he thinks that feels more like how you experience that environment, with a bit more depth of field.

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I would be interested in more replies to this question.  I was under the impression that having a basic working f-stop for a project was standard procedure and that, for the reasons the Gordon Willis stated, you generally don't want to deviate from it unless you are out of options to maintain it.  (I think I remember reading somewhere that Raiders of the Lost Ark was shot at 5.6)

Is this still an approach that modern cinematographers are adhering to?  Or is it something like the once hardcore law of never mixing color temperatures in lighting that has come to seem less necessary?       

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"Raiders" was actually shot at different stops -- Slocombe liked to stop down for deep focus but because he was using 100 ASA film, that was easier in sunlight where he would be shooting at f/11-f/16, but that wasn't possible for all interiors and night scenes. The few scenes like in the U-boat underground pen or the wharf at night look more like f/2.8-f/4.

He tried to get to an f/14.5 he said in an interview in American Cinematographer (May 1982):

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We primarily relied on wide-angle prime lenses. I prefer to work in the aperture range of T14 to T14.5 when I am shooting an anamorphic film like RAIDERS. I feel that you need that for your depth-of-field. The feeling of depth contributed to the look.

Shooting a whole movie at one stop is more the exception than the rule, unless it is a movie entirely shot on interiors.

A more typical movie with a mix will have some scenes shot near wide-open in low-light or stopped down for slow zooms or when they need a deeper focus. You look at a movie like "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" and the bridge scenes had to be shot at f/2.8 in anamorphic due to the dimness of the console lights and screens, but a few shots were done on a T/4.5 zoom and some others were shot on VistaVision looking at a bluescreen in the big screen on the bridge and clearly look shot at a deeper stop. In those cases, the console lights and monitors look dimmer than established. Once the camera was off of the bridge set, there were sets that could be shot at f/4.

Yes, it's not bad advise to try to stick to a closer range for visual consistency and certainly most DP's try to light coverage for a single scene with the same stop. You hear advice in old American Cinematographer magazines, for example, where DP's say that they always light to an f/4 because they ever no when the director is going to ask for the zoom lens to be used.  If you decide to shoot a whole movie at f/2.0, you're basically telling the director they can't use a zoom lens.

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Thanks for clearing that up, David!  Like the OP, I've read a number of interviews with older guys like Willis who largely seemed to advocate sticking to a single f-stop.  I just kind of assumed that in the big leagues, there was enough gear to make that happen all the time.  Adjusting f-stop according to scene is much more pragmatic.  

Also appreciate the correction regarding Raiders.  Not sure where I picked that up that 5.6 business but I'm glad to know the truth of it. 

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That is hardcore! That was why he was 'Godfather Willis.' That was from an era when the DP put some effort in the lighting and film tests. Now the kids can't be bothered with tests, even when it is instant digital.

Before you use your lenses, you should test them wide open to f5.6. Know what it is capable of. Why use a lens at a certain aperture if it produces shitty res? Most lenses sweet spot is f4 or f5.6.

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That strikes me as a pretty bonkers concept really. What if you have a really close-focus shot? If you're shooting at a wider aperture, your longer-lens shots will have stupidly shallow DOF.

If "consistency" is the goal. Altering your aperture to keep DoF feeling similar between shots (regardless of focal length or subject distance) is going to be a far more effective tool (in my opinion).

But Gordie seemed to do just fine for himself (whatever the approach might have been), so what do I know ?

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On 6/13/2023 at 7:26 PM, Adrian Sierkowski said:

Another very good reason to alter your stop is when you get saddled with a really less than ideal location-- where often you're stacking NDs and getting as wide open as possible to hide what's behind the action.

I prefer deeper depths of field. However for your point, on my recent feature we were shooting at a very public location, a fair ground on a pier. It was daylight, around 18:00 so the sun was lower but still very bright as it's the summer.

We had permission from the location but there were a few thousand people. We didn't have enough time or people to get release forms and so we opened up the lens and added ND's.

Like I said, it's not my preferred look for my work but it was required. It actually ended up working for the story and scenes on the Pier.

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Much as I like deep focus, I was also intrigued by some of the outdoor footage in the recent Great Expectations on BBC.  Taken with fairly wide lenses in good light, with the closeups sharp but the crowds and activity in the background very out of focus.  The effect concentrated the actors' performances better, as well as maybe losing any unwanted detail in this period setting.

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I think that would give you a very consistent look, especially if you are using a very limited set of lenses (or just one lens!).

Personally I have been intriqued about the idea of shooting night scenes (and other low light scenes) on for example T/2 (even if the light levels are high) and bright daylight scenes at T/11 – to replicate the way human eye sees things.

Someone has also mentioned about using different apertures on different focal lengths and distances to "even out" some of the differences in DOF. For example shooting wide shots with a wide angle lens at T/2.8 (with ND) and the closeups with a 50mm at T/5.6. Would that make any sense?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I might have misunderstood but I saw an interview with Rob Hardy on YouTube and as a throwaway line he said he shot the entirety of Ex-Machina at the same aperture that was shot mostly on Sony F65 and some outdoors scenes on F55.

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  • 2 weeks later...

When shooting indoors, I try to always shoot around F4, unless I'm going for a special look.  I usually don't have the budget to do much reinforcement of lighting outdoors but with a good ND filter, can generally get between F4 and F8.

I seem to remember reading that Josh Becker generally lights everything to F5.6.  It's not as hard as it sounds unless you're doing available light shooting.

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