Marcos Cooper Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 I can't remember the last show I saw with a beautiful audience-wowing pan or sudden scene-stopping tilt. And with all the gimbals, and sliders, and ever-more intricate computer-controlled remote camera heads available does it make sense to bother with a fluid head on sticks anymore? Or are styles of camera movement cyclical and we'll see cinematographers dust off their Vintens and O'Connors for a renaissance of classic camera moves? Or am I just not very observant and can't see that fluid head moves are as common as they ever were? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Hart Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Nothing annoys me as a viewer quite as much as a handheld wide shot of a car arrival and pan follow of the occupants walking into a front entrance when you can see in the horizon sway with every breath the camera operator takes. How long does it really take to set up a tripod? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted October 19, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted October 19, 2023 Most shots are still done on fluid and geared heads but it's not like that sticks out at the viewer. Just watch any family dinner scene around a table -- most of those shots are done on a fluid head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted October 19, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted October 19, 2023 There is something to be said about the reliability and easy of set up of sticks as well. Camera control sounds great until batteries die, or computer doesn't compute. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 There does seem to be a view that sticks are old school. Hand-held all the time, big monitor on top, sometimes a gimbal, is the new fashion. It's called minimalism I think. Shoot in natural light most of the time and use minimal gear. It's a style that works but I think a tripod can help get even better results. They're heavy to lug around and could potentially do your back in on a busy and long day especially the older you get but I feel it generally gives a more professional look than shot after shot of hand-held and subtly 'floaty' or tracking shots for no particular reason other than to impart a certain look that's supposed to be more impressive. The other fashion is for a lot of slow motion. It's so easy to do but gives a wedding video an overly sentimental feel. To all those who say a tripod is too old school I say give the tripod a try, work a bit harder on the shoot, and you might end up with something that has a chance of not looking like kitsch. If people laugh at you for turning up with so much gear (the average person out there seems to think all video can now be shot just on hand-held phone cameras) don't worry about it. Just get the shots you need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) In the creative arts much of what's called minimalism is actually a form of laziness. You see it in music performance too. Violinists who use the latest high tech pickups, blue tooth, and light, easy to set up speakers and their sound goes through a digital system that imparts an automatic reverb and whatever else into the sound - sometimes almost a sampling effect. You still have to play in tune and smoothly for good results but it means you literally don't have to work so hard (physically) for a good sound and projection. But it comes out looking and sounding lazy and low-tone -- and it is. I feel that in video, too, going with digital stabilizer and gimbal all the time, and too much slow-mo, with light, easy gear ... it just comes across as a lazy way to film. Something's missing in it. It lacks conviction and soul somehow. Ultimately, it affects just how much 'art' there is in it. Edited October 20, 2023 by Jon O'Brien 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Hart Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 John OBrien. It may be as simple as cost-driven fast but unthorough expediency, reliant upon how much degradation of product quality the marketplace will bear. If everyone else is driving the cost down, no single entity competing in the same genre may be able to afford not to in the end. A bland factory sameness may be what is driving the decline in streaming subscription as much as the post-COVID reduction in a family's "discretionary spend". Finding the gems amid the dross may be requiring too much effort and too many subscriptions. The "consumer" may be taking the game off the table as too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Quesnel Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 I can only speak from my experience, but on mid to high budget episodic I find most shots are done with an Oconnor fluid head on a dolly, probably somewhere around 75% of them or more. Probably because it's a rather fast way of working when the camera can be easily wheeled to the next set up and the operator can start framing up right away, the efficiency is important for making the day. Ronin 2's mounted to a dolly are becoming more popular, but they are often still used to just do simple pans and tilts like on a fluid head. I rarely see sticks being used except for on low budget shows when production does not want to spend the budget on a dolly and dedicated dolly grip. Except for on the largest of shows, cranes, remote heads, and other specialty tools tend to be a daily rental for specific scenes because the costs are just too high and they can often eat up more time in the day. I think it really just comes down to the cost and ease of use, and more often than not, a simple pan or tilt on a fluid head can be the perfect move for the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted October 21, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted October 21, 2023 I think a lot depends on if you are in a studio or not, or someplace easily dolly accessible without laying track (which then slows you down) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted October 21, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted October 21, 2023 Every show we rent gear to has at least one O’Connor head per camera, they are pretty much indispensable. Geared heads have also been getting some use over the last few years, after a long time of being out of fashion, which is a welcome trend. An experienced operator on a geared head can produce lovely camera movement. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neel Potgieter Posted October 21, 2023 Share Posted October 21, 2023 Been working a lot with jib arm + remote head with handwheels...i find it just frees me up and doesn't limit camera movement to how far I can twist my body : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart McLain Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 I'm hardly the most accomplished filmmaker here but I can say that I just recently screened a short film at a multi-media event and the one time I heard someone in the audience say, "Oh, that's a great shot!" was during a camera-on-sticks-with-fluid-head-tilt. So there's that. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Uli Meyer Posted October 22, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted October 22, 2023 Low budget filmmaker and happy owner of a recently purchased Sachtler Cine 30 (like new from the Procam auction). Great alternative to the O'Connor heads, it takes heavy payloads and delivers buttery smooth pans and tilts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albion Hockney Posted October 22, 2023 Share Posted October 22, 2023 I feel like I shoot about 50% on a basic tripod/head setup. sometimes the camera is static, but maybe 25% of shots have some pan/tilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Shannon Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 Still take at least a 2575 on every job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tristan Noelle Posted October 28, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted October 28, 2023 I think there’s something to be said for the operator being “in” the scene in a way, close to the performances. A remote head operated from video village for normal scenes is capable of doing what a fluid head and operator can do, but I find it useful to have an eyeline to the actors outside of the viewfinder and monitor for matching and anticipating movement in some scenes, like when actors are loose with marks or go off book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Sagady Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Don’t mean to necro but I have to say that keeping your eye in the eyepiece and operating the camera as an extension of your body will always provide superior results to a more disconnected method of operating. There is always a time and a place for remote heads and gimbals but I can’t imagine replacing basic sticks moments with them. Get in close and feel the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted December 12, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted December 12, 2023 Dang how did I miss this post! lol As a habitual fluid head operator, I actually use fluid heads on sticks, sliders AND jib arms. I love shooting from the viewfinder, I love the camera body tucked under my shoulder and being able to twist my body in order to follow the subject. I think the hand held look, which includes gimbals, comes and goes with the times. It was very popular when the first light weight Arri 35mm cameras came out. Seems like everyone was using it for at least a few shots in their films. The use of hand held and wide angle lenses, can help relay certain emotional elements to the audience. Kubrick used it widely in his movies and for good reason. I think many people try to emulate what others do and it works, sorta. I personally prefer keeping my camera on a surface which isn't my body. Even though I do shoot quite a bit of Steadicam work, it's mostly because I don't have a choice. Time, money, sometimes even the shot itself, prohibits it for one reason or another. So my chest of tools, does have Steadicam, but for everything else, a stack of fluid heads, with nearly every mount type imaginable. This way, I can rent a dolly or jib arm and connect my Mitchell mount head to it. Stick me on a Fisher 11 dolly all day with an extension plate and my fluid head, I'm happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Mark Kenfield Posted January 8 Premium Member Share Posted January 8 Cameras certainly move more now than they used to, with handheld being a far more dominant style than ever before. But tripods are going nowhere, and still form the backbone of most production (outside of perhaps the largest and lowest budget productions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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