jack layfield Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Just got this film back from the lab and it looks like its been shot with a red filter. Was shot on Eclair ACL with schneider-kreuznach variogon 18-90mm f2 Have spoken with the lab and they said no error reports so just a bit confused why this wouldve happened, if anyone has any insights would be much appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Gregory Irwin Posted November 29, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2021 Did you shoot negative or chrome stock? G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack layfield Posted November 29, 2021 Author Share Posted November 29, 2021 Ah should've mentioned that, Kodak 500t Colour Negative Film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Gregory Irwin Posted November 29, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2021 Am I wrong? It appears that you are projecting the negative which would make sense for the red. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack layfield Posted November 29, 2021 Author Share Posted November 29, 2021 40 minutes ago, Gregory Irwin said: Am I wrong? It appears that you are projecting the negative which would make sense for the red. G So having the film the wrong way? I thought that but it can only be lead through the sprockets and im pretty sure the emulsion was on the correct side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Uli Meyer Posted November 29, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, jack layfield said: So having the film the wrong way? I thought that but it can only be lead through the sprockets and im pretty sure the emulsion was on the correct side. Have you uploaded the scan file of your film as you've received it from the lab? It looks like you filmed it off a monitor or projected onto a wall. Very odd. Edited November 29, 2021 by Uli Meyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Was this fresh film or some short end? I'm asking, because that really does look like it was exposed through the back, compare to these: https://microsites.lomography.com/redscalefilm/ Yours has same color and the under exposed look. With single perf 16mm it shouldn't be possible unless you had different winding. But if it's some short end or Aaton Minima film... Still, I'd think you'd notice if it wasn't the lighter emulsion side you saw when checking the gate. Quite weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 29, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2021 49 minutes ago, Heikki Repo said: Was this fresh film or some short end? I'm asking, because that really does look like it was exposed through the back, compare to these: https://microsites.lomography.com/redscalefilm/ Yours has same color and the under exposed look. With single perf 16mm it shouldn't be possible unless you had different winding. But if it's some short end or Aaton Minima film... Still, I'd think you'd notice if it wasn't the lighter emulsion side you saw when checking the gate. Quite weird. That would be my guess; either short ends wound incorrectly to a spool or a magazine somehow loaded incorrectly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack layfield Posted November 29, 2021 Author Share Posted November 29, 2021 Thanks for all insight, I must of as it was from a 100ft roll i needed the spool for and then i put back on...I thought i was sure the emulsion side was correct but must have been wrong. These thing do happen : / Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Frank Wylie Posted November 29, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2021 Yes, after 40 years, I still have to think hard about proper wind/orientation on single perf 16mm! It never gets any easier (at least for me)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted November 29, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2021 I don't know how you'd mis-load a single perf roll of film, the sprocket can only be on one side with single perf. So it seems highly highly highly unlikely, but yes these are the results you'd get if you shot through the backing side instead of the emulsion side. I just can't think of how you'd do it. No cameras I know can be threaded backwards like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Gregory Irwin Posted November 29, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, jack layfield said: So having the film the wrong way? I thought that but it can only be lead through the sprockets and im pretty sure the emulsion was on the correct side. I’m suggesting that you are projecting the actual negative instead of the positive print. Either that or the film stock is a bad batch. Was your scene a day exterior or night? The red on the negative would be blue on the positive. If the film was loaded backwards, there would be numerous other problems. Focus would be soft, exposure would be completely off and the image would just look bad. G Edited November 29, 2021 by Gregory Irwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karim D. Ghantous Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 AFAIK, RedScale film has a slightly lower ASA rating. In addition to that, the Remjet is even more dense than regular film (I think?), and if you shot through the Remjet, you'd be noticeably underexposed. So obviously you threaded the film the correct way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 It's positive film. There isn't a red filter in the filter holder? Looks like a coloured filter as used sometimes with B&W film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Yes focus would be soft if film was loaded backwards. Looks pretty sharp to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted November 30, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Jon O'Brien said: It's positive film. The OP said it's Vision 3 500T It was also professionally processed and scanned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Indeed. Quite so! I meant to say that the image, to my eye, looks like a positive image. Not a projected negative image. But perhaps I misunderstood some elements of the discussion. Forgive my incorrect wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Aapo Lettinen Posted November 30, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 30, 2021 for me the most logical explanation would be that if the stock was a short end, it was not 500T 7219 at all but probably some lower sensitivity daylight balanced stock like 250D (7207). So could it have been just incorrectly marked 250D which everyone though was 500T and then you shot it with 85 filter which would have been good with the tungsten balanced 500T but lead to the underexposed reddish orange look when used on lower sensitivity daylight balanced 250D ? to me the typical light leak on the film edges and sprockets due to the daylight spool looks relatively normal. If there would be something wrong with the film itself the light leaks would look much weirder and more off colour I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 Yes that seems a highly feasible possibility to me, Aapo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted November 30, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 30, 2021 If the film had been exposed through the back, sharpness would have lost. I think Aapo has it quite right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack layfield Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 It was 100% 500T shot without any filter. It wasn't a short end, it was 100ft wound and then rewound back on and i had to do this twice as the first time the it didn't feed through as the sprockets and emulsion where on the wrong side. It got processed at cinelab and scanned at on8mil and no one said anything before sending the file back to me. Really baffled right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted November 30, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted November 30, 2021 Seems pretty clearly shot through the back of the film ie redscale. Rewinding twice it could happen. I’ve done it with reversal and it was still sharp, these redscale films on 16mm neg are sometimes fairly sharp, and look similar: I think whether it loses focus or not would depend on the focal length and f stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack layfield Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 Hey Dom everything is pointing that way so will have to take the fault as my own, it will fill a few holes in the short doc im making either way. Thanks all for you thoughts on this topic. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Gregory Irwin Posted December 1, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted December 1, 2021 My next question would be if the film was exposed base side out, why didn’t the lab report it as such? G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Aapo Lettinen Posted December 1, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted December 1, 2021 I would imagine it being very easy to detect a colour negative film being back side out because the remjet side is black coloured and does not look like emulsion at all. I have once made the base side out mistake with ektachrome colour reversal film which does not have black remjet layer but films with remjet are so easy to detect that it would really be a "haven't slept in three days" type of mistake ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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