Premium Member David Sekanina Posted March 28, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted March 28, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Charles MacDonald Posted March 28, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted March 28, 2022 the video does show in great detail the process for making ESTAR film base. Hard to imagine Kodak being so open on their internal processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted March 28, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) It's wonderful to see a young generation learning the skills at Kodak. Edited March 28, 2022 by David Sekanina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel D. Teoli Jr. Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) On 3/28/2022 at 1:40 PM, Charles MacDonald said: the video does show in great detail the process for making ESTAR film base. Hard to imagine Kodak being so open on their internal processes. It is not the old Kodak...it is the new Kodak. The old Kodak was more secretive. But whether, old or new, some companies won't even answer their emails, let alone give you a view. Here is (old) Kodak's photo paper operation. Kodak Archive: DDTJRAC Below: An early blackout infrared flash photo from 1945 of Kodak’s Aero Pan film spooling operation. A single GE 22R infrared flashbulb was suspended above each operator for illumination. Photographed with a 4 x 5 camera with infrared film. Kodak Archive: DDTJRAC Can you imagine working in the dark all day? Panchromatic film, no safelight and everything by touch. Sure, we did it all the time in the darkroom. But not in the dark 8 hours a day. OK, maybe it would not be so bad, for half an hour a day, if you had a luscious girl to work with in the dark. But nowadays they got all that me too stuff. So, I'd be fired within 5 minutes. But I'm getting too old, so not much energy left for the gals. Anyway, the gals had to keep their hair wrapped. No drippings on the film! All women crew except the cart. Women got patience. That is something we should do nowadays. Shoot some IR flash in the darkroom! I love IR Flash! <><><><> Selection from Anatomy of a 8mm Cine' Kodachrome - D.D. Teoli Jr. Edited March 29, 2022 by Daniel D. Teoli Jr. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Eader Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 David Will you give us a heads-up when parts 2 & 3 have been posted? It was great to see the first part. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth North Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Hi David, Thanks so much for making these 3 videos. I have often wanted to visit and wondered what the insides of Kodak Rochester was actually like. There has been the odd short site visit videos on youtube and a 1950s kodak doc but nothing as comprehensive as this. The best I thought I'd ever come to feeling like I'd visited it / certainly understood the process was the book below which I've owned for a number of years. I knew the process was some kind of crazy alchemist wizardry but until you really know the actual process, just how totally batshit crazy it actually is do you come to appreciate all the R&D and material science over decades that has refined it to the point it is now. The BBC have a TV series in the UK called "Inside the Factory" and it looks at all manner of food and product manufacturing factories and I've learnt some interesting insight into various sectors but Nothing Repeat Nothing comes close to the process of manufacturing color photographic Film its just on another level. What's amazing is the openness when previously (according to the book and a previous forum post) all the knowledge was compartmentalized with one or two people in each section knowing that sections processes and barely one or two people knowing the whole process which was a closely guarded secret. I've given the book to various family and friends and usually watch there yaw drop when they begin to realize what actually went into making this then having to imagine doing 75% of the manufacturing process in near to or complete darkness. That's the real kicker. Anyhow thanks again the videos are great! I really wish they'd have an open weekend or something I definetly want to go! Best Regards Gareth 16mm Ektachrome Lover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted April 1, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted April 1, 2022 Oh, these are not my videos! I just posted these for those interested. Will post the other parts as soon as they are available - Destin usually posts a video a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karim D. Ghantous Posted April 5, 2022 Share Posted April 5, 2022 I just realised that Portra 800 is an amazing looking film. I always ignored it due to its low tech compared to Portra 400, which has all the Vision3 magic. As of right now, Portra 800 is my favourite film. If you could shoot Portra 800 in a movie camera, would you shoot a project with it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted June 19, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted June 19, 2022 Still waiting for part two and three of the tour, but I was wondering, given the enormous machinery and sophistication creating the acetate and Estar base, do the other film manufacturers get their base from Kodak? Or does Ilford create their own base? Just curious ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 2 hours ago, David Sekanina said: Still waiting for part two and three of the tour, but I was wondering, given the enormous machinery and sophistication creating the acetate and Estar base, do the other film manufacturers get their base from Kodak? Or does Ilford create their own base? Just curious ? I think some people on Photrio would probably know the answer to this question: https://www.photrio.com/forum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Hagelstein Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 On 3/30/2022 at 12:17 AM, Daniel D. Teoli Jr. said: It is not the old Kodak...it is the new Kodak. The old Kodak was more secretive. But whether, old or new, some companies won't even answer their emails, let alone give you a view. Here is (old) Kodak's photo paper operation. Kodak Archive: DDTJRAC Below: An early blackout infrared flash photo from 1945 of Kodak’s Aero Pan film spooling operation. A single GE 22R infrared flashbulb was suspended above each operator for illumination. Photographed with a 4 x 5 camera with infrared film. Kodak Archive: DDTJRAC Can you imagine working in the dark all day? Panchromatic film, no safelight and everything by touch. Sure, we did it all the time in the darkroom. But not in the dark 8 hours a day. OK, maybe it would not be so bad, for half an hour a day, if you had a luscious girl to work with in the dark. But nowadays they got all that me too stuff. So, I'd be fired within 5 minutes. But I'm getting too old, so not much energy left for the gals. Anyway, the gals had to keep their hair wrapped. No drippings on the film! All women crew except the cart. Women got patience. That is something we should do nowadays. Shoot some IR flash in the darkroom! I love IR Flash! <><><><> Selection from Anatomy of a 8mm Cine' Kodachrome - D.D. Teoli Jr. The images are stunning. Do you have more? Total Eye Candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted July 30, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted July 30, 2022 part two: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan kessler Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) Not only is the whole process astounding, but the tolerances of some of the components that had to be machined are mind-blowing. For example, those solid titanium bars in the coating machines. They're what -- 3 or 4 feet long, machined, ground and polished over their entire length to a tolerance of fifty millionths of an inch. In machinist's parlance, that's half a tenth, or half a ten-thousandth of an inch. Holding that over the entire length along with the smoothness tolerance in some of the world's toughest material will make your head explode. And they've got stacks of those things! I think of the shop and the people who made them and just absolutely cringe. Oh yeah, and then the coating machine is mounted on its own independent foundation that goes down to bedrock below the building. All just so we can shoot film. Edited July 31, 2022 by dan kessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted July 31, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 I agree Dan. I was mesmerized, but I also fear, should Kodak get into financial trouble again, it might be the end of motion picture color film, judging from the sheer size and complexity of the operation. I don't know what ORWO is truly doing and at what scale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Zrike Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Don’t really disagree with anything in particular, but I find it a bit funny that we’ve been consistently saying motion picture film will cease to exist soon… for the last twelve years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted July 31, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 I wouldn't design film cameras if I didn't believe in film ? Just thinking, no one will be able to replicate this at such a scale, should (for whatever reason) Kodak decide to stop manufacturing motion picture film. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted July 31, 2022 Premium Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, David Sekanina said: I agree Dan. I was mesmerized, but I also fear, should Kodak get into financial trouble again, it might be the end of motion picture color film, judging from the sheer size and complexity of the operation. I don't know what ORWO is truly doing and at what scale. Correct, Kodak is already in financial trouble. "Film" product is the last big market they have. They've sold nearly everything else off. The fact they keep bleeding long-term employees and refuse to release the already finished and ready to roll Vision 4 stock, really shows how much trouble they're in. ORWO is no way going to produce enough film to make a difference, they don't have a full facility. They use multiple shops to do each step, so their costs are far more volatile. Plus, everything in the EU is more costly, especially the materials required to make emulsion. The only stock we've seen thus far is 50D. It looks nice tho, very different to Kodak, so that's good. But can they make enough to make a dent and keep the price lower then Kodak? I just don't see how. I've been wrong before, but especially for the US market, I don't see them being competitive. In the EU, they may be competitive, so we'll see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted July 31, 2022 Author Premium Member Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) Isn't the digital press their biggest revenue now? Edited July 31, 2022 by David Sekanina 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzo Firmi Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 There are also a couple of "spin-off" shot on the same days on an affiliated channel, this one is amazing. Thanks for sharing them in the first place David! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzo Firmi Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted April 19, 2023 Author Premium Member Share Posted April 19, 2023 Polaroid Tour: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Burke Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 These videos give a new appreciation of the product and what Orwo is going through to get a new stock to market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Sekanina Posted May 15, 2023 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2023 part 3 by Justin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted May 15, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted May 15, 2023 John Pytlak gave me a tour of the Estar plant around 2005, a few years before he passed away in 2007. The reason they can give tours of the base manufacturing is because those are the only products that are made under room lighting, the emulsions are made and coated in darkness. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Tracy Babcock Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) On 7/31/2022 at 4:27 AM, Tyler Purcell said: Correct, Kodak is already in financial trouble. "Film" product is the last big market they have. They've sold nearly everything else off. The fact they keep bleeding long-term employees and refuse to release the already finished and ready to roll Vision 4 stock, really shows how much trouble they're in. ORWO is no way going to produce enough film to make a difference, they don't have a full facility. They use multiple shops to do each step, so their costs are far more volatile. Plus, everything in the EU is more costly, especially the materials required to make emulsion. The only stock we've seen thus far is 50D. It looks nice tho, very different to Kodak, so that's good. But can they make enough to make a dent and keep the price lower then Kodak? I just don't see how. I've been wrong before, but especially for the US market, I don't see them being competitive. In the EU, they may be competitive, so we'll see! This is the first I've ever heard of a potential Vision 4. Do you know any technical specs of the stock and/or details of its supposed aborted release? A google search literally only returns your post and another thread from 2012. Edited June 18, 2023 by William Tracy Babcock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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