Nikon to Acquire US Cinema Camera Manufacturer RED

[Jeremy Saltry]

https://www.nikon.com/company/news/2024/0307_01.html

[Emanuel A Guedes]

WOW

[Aapo Lettinen]

Quote

Nikon's expertise in product development, exceptional reliability, and know-how in image processing

we are doomed

[David Sekanina]

what a silly remark Aapo

[Aapo Lettinen]

1 hour ago, David Sekanina said:

what a silly remark Aapo

Nikon does not have expertise in making movie cameras and their stills cameras have very questionable video performance so I would expect the RED products to drop in image quality and reliability in the next years. After shooting a feature and other stuff with the Z6 I would not want to be in the same room with a Nikon branded camera again

[Mark Dunn]

6 minutes ago, Aapo Lettinen said:

Nikon does not have expertise in making movie cameras and their stills cameras have very questionable video performance

Perhaps this is precisely why they've bought RED?

[David Sekanina]

I think your gas mask has a leak Aapo 😵

[Albion Hockney]

Nikon is a huge company with way more resources then RED. Maybe Nikon will create some interesting cameras —or maybe the whole thing will be mismanaged, But can't be much worse then RED. I see less and Red's on set these days other then the komodo. Atleast they finally got ND filters in the things. Hopefully Nikon can take the base of what Red is doing and improve upon it, they could become a major player in the next 5 years if so.

[Steve Switaj]

This is interesting.

If you've been to NAB in the last decade it's been clear that Nikon has been trying to get themselves a little of the video-side action like Canon.

About 5 years ago they bought the VFX motion control company Mark Roberts. They didn't really explain why, and it seemed an odd fit.

But then I saw the two companies had a combined NAB booth that showcased their joint foray into remote-operated camera heads for high-end sports and automated camera pedestals for smaller news broadcasts, all featuring tight integration with Nikon DSLR's instead of the more typical video cameras you might expect.

It made sense, Mark Roberts needed funding to explore markets other than the slowly evaporating film VFX world and Nikon really had to find a way to grow their photo division out of their limited (mostly) still camera market.

Canon always had first mover advantage since they already had a toehold in broadcast and film with their lenses, and their consumer and prosumer video products going back to the 80's gave them a product line to build on.  But Nikon has never really had that. Yeah, they build microscopes and sport optics, but on the photographic side... they're mostly a still camera company. 

Now that everybody with a phone - which is to say pretty much everybody - already carries a pretty good camera in their pocket all day long, I've got to believe that the niche for dedicated still cameras is getting pretty dang tight, at least by historical standards. Nikon kind of has to do something, it can't let Canon keep gobbling up market sectors. 

Edited March 8 by Steve Switaj

[Jeremy Saltry]

Nikon is 200 billion dollars a year in revenue. 
 

RED is 150 million. 
 

I’d wager in part, considering recent lawsuits, REDs IP and compression has a value that everyone is potentially overlooking. 

If you can’t beat them. Buy them.
 

Then license what’s left out for all. 
 

 

[Max Field]

Does this mean we'll get RED sensors without horridly priced proprietary options?

[Aapo Lettinen]

1 hour ago, Max Field said:

Does this mean we'll get RED sensors without horridly priced proprietary options?

I think it will mean RED sensors soon having tons of dead pixels, random channel noise and flickering and so bad image processing that the black hole sun problem comes back 😄

oh, and dynamic range will be at most half of what is advertised. 

And firmware update don't correct any real issues, just adding new ones :D 

[Daniel D. Teoli Jr.]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:43 AM, Aapo Lettinen said:

we are doomed

 

Dunno, but never thought about Nikon when it comes to cine.'

Seems an odd mix.

 

[Tim Tyler]

Some perspective.

February 2013: Sony, Red End Patent Dispute

• Red filed for an injunction against Sony, claiming that several of its new CineAlta products, particularly the 4K-capable F65, infringed on patents the company held. They requested that Sony not only be forced to stop selling the cameras, but that they be destroyed as well. Sony filed a countersuit against Red in April 2013, alleging that Red's entire product line infringed on Sony patents. In July 2013, both parties filed jointly for dismissal, and as of July 20, 2013, the case is closed.

May 2019: Apple Goes After RED Over Key RAW Patent

• Apple Inc. filed a lawsuit against Red.com, LLC over several patents relating to digital cinema cameras and sensor processing.[51] Apple lost the case in November 2019. Apple argued that the patents related to Redcode Raw were "unpatentable", but a judge ruled that Apple's legal team had not provided sufficient evidence to back up their claims.

November 2019: Court Dismisses Apple’s Attempt to Invalidate RED’s RAW Video Patent

• A US court dismissed Apple’s challenge to RED’s main RAW video patent, allowing RED to maintain some control over Apple’s ProRes RAW codec.

May 2022: RED Sues Nikon for Infringing on its Video Compression Patents

• The lawsuit was filed in a southern California federal court today and asserts that the Japanese camera manufacturer and its United States subsidiaries have illegally infringed on seven patents that deal specifically with “a video camera that can be configured to highly compress video data in a visually lossless manner.”

September 2022: Nikon is Fighting RED’s Lawsuit Over the Z9’s Compressed RAW Video

• Nikon admitted it was aware of multiple lawsuits that RED had filed in the past against other companies for similar infractions, but added that the claims that RED brought forward in those cases were “invalid” as they did not “satisfy the conditions of patentability.”

April 2023: RED’s Lawsuit Against Nikon Dismissed

• Of note, a Rule 41 dismissal means that the two companies came together and agreed on something, Maddrey explains. While the public will likely never know what the two companies determined, given the money that was probably already spent to hire very well-known law firms on both sides, the two parties definitely decided that whatever agreement they could reach was better than the cost of going through with the litigation.
   
• RED’s attorneys likely would not want the case to go to court if there was any doubt that the patent wasn’t going to hold up. By dismissing the lawsuit, RED gets to keep its patent on the books. So while it could be that Nikon paid RED a royalty, it is just as likely that it could have been that RED didn’t want Nikon to pursue the case further to avoid the possibility of weakening its patent. If one court says a patent is invalid, that would have cascading effects.

March 2024: Nikon to Acquire US Cinema Camera Manufacturer RED.com, LLC

• Nikon Corporation (Nikon) hereby announces its entry into an agreement to acquire 100% of the outstanding membership interests of RED.com, LLC (RED) whereby RED will become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Nikon, pursuant to a Membership Interest Purchase Agreement with Mr. James Jannard, its founder, and Mr. Jarred Land, its current President, subject to the satisfaction of certain closing conditions thereunder.

 

[Joerg Polzfusz]

The biggest question is: Will RED stay a separate company that is only owned by Nikon (to prevent further lawsuits)? Or is Nikon going to force RED to produce more prosumer products (action cameras, something similar to the blackmagic pocket, …)? Or will Nikon force RED to sell their future products under the Nikon brand (so that they can rival e.g. Canon‘s C300)?

[Tim Tyler]

If the deal actually happens, as a wholly owned subsidiary it's unlikely much will change regarding the products at RED, at least in the short term.

Maybe Nikon will commission RED to build a line of Nikon branded cinema cameras (with a Nikon lens mount option?) but I doubt they'd aim to compete with or rebrand any of RED's existing top of the line cameras anytime soon. Nikon would really need to wow the market with a  <$ 9,000 camera body that outperforms the competition before they can justify spending the money to compete with high end Arri, Sony and Canon gear. If things go well, eventually new RED cameras might be branded with the Nikon logo.

What's certain though is that RED will no longer have the flexibility to be a "do whatever we want" company. They will need to answer to Nikon.

 

[Albion Hockney]

Yea I think this is a very long term game and is clearly just business stuff.

That said I think in the longer term it could add more competition that could be interesting. Maybe a more fully featured red komodo for under 10k for example.

This is a hard space to get into though and only getting harder as tech improves even with the RED brand and tech it might just not happen for Nikon. Panasonic hasn't been able to crack the code even with pretty good camera tech (ie the varicam and varicam LT).

Edited March 9 by Albion Hockney

[Jon O'Brien]

10 hours ago, Joerg Polzfusz said:

 … will Nikon force RED to sell their future products under the Nikon brand (so that they can rival e.g. Canon‘s C300)?

An interesting development if that occurs. Imagine the world without RED cameras, or at least without the word 'RED' on them. Speaking of the Canon C300 III, this camera seems to be very impressive, with a dual gain sensor somewhat similar to the Arri Alexa. Yes, Nikon might be seeking to produce something comparable to the C300.

Edited March 9 by Jon O'Brien

[Emanuel A Guedes]

 

[Jaron Berman]

I may be in the minority here, but I saw the headline and was immediately more interested in a future RED purchase.  Nikon will hopefully bring a little bit of business sense to RED - they need to stop obsoleting their cameras every 6 months.  REDheads would disagree, something about the rogue spirit and something about 10yo cams still being good.  I don't disagree, but when you're the only high-end camera owner in a market you have more pull in mandating your old camera than in a first market where clients want whatever is the hot/new. 

And RED don't make cheap cameras anymore -  when it's impossible to make your money back on a camera because it's out of vogue before the year ends - that's not a viable purchase for an owner/op or a rental house.  It's why more houses have Sony/Arri - the investment commands higher rates for longer, regardless of initial purchase price.  Nikon will almost certainly slow down the cycle and improve the QC - which makes the product more valuable and trustworthy.  What complaints do you hear about RED cameras?  Reliability, QC, and the fear that after-sales service will depend on your social media presence.  You almost never hear that the picture is bad.  So Nikon should be able to fix all those business things quickly, and win back the trust of a HUGE amount of the industry who for one reason or another have been burned by a bad experience or few with RED cams.  I mean the Raptor X seems to have a much nicer picture than the Venice 2, but I wouldn't risk trading the reliability of the Sony in favor of RED - yet.  

 

[Albion Hockney]

Red is a brand not really designed to target  people who want reliability and a proper professional product. They built the brand on hype and social media influence. I agree it would be nice for that to change and have another legit player in the marketplace 

Edited March 10 by Albion Hockney

[Helge Abrahamson]

Remember Minolta? - Bought by Sony because they needed fast lane access to making SLR lenses - No more Minolta.

Nikon need fast lane access to making usable video in there SLR's - No more RED.

[Kamran Pakseresht]

There seems to be a lot of negative comments towards Nikons video offerings - but everything I’ve read about their latest cameras (Z8 and Z9) is that they are incredibly capable and actually competitive with the other cameras in their price bracket. I had started to think that Nikon was making a bit of a comeback based on the reviews, but the comments here seem so far in the other direction that it’s confusing. I definitely assumed this to be great news for Nikon and video cameras in general.

[Keith Walters]

Hard to believe that the first post about Red was just on 18 years ago!

 

[Keith Walters]

On 3/9/2024 at 8:30 AM, Tim Tyler said:

If the deal actually happens, as a wholly owned subsidiary it's unlikely much will change regarding the products at RED, at least in the short term.

 

It makes you think of the early 2000s, when Sony was really the only game in town for "Digital Cinematography" cameras, yet for a very long time, not a single feature from Columbia Pictures (owned by Sony) was shot on video; it was 35mm negative all the way.
It would be interesting to see what the actual current sales figures are for Red cameras. (Actual figures, NOT guesses from barstool "experts" 🤣).
It could simply be that the market is now close to saturated, and it's getting harder and harder to come up with new models that are a big enough improvement over what people have already.