John Salim Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 The traditional film used by National Geographic still photographers for years was, I think, Ektachrome. It's a highly respected film stock. I never used it much in my filmmaking, since I used Kodachrome or more recently Vision 3. I'm keen to film with it. Thanks Kodak for bringing it back. What are the strengths and weaknesses of Provia? Fujichrome Provia ( marketed as Provie 100D ) is an excellent quality film - probably the best colour reversal cine film out there at the moment. I process many of these carts, as well as 35mm and 120 Provia stills films, and some images are just breathtaking ! The only thing ( many ) folk complain about is, the carts are only loaded with 40ft of film not 50ft. This I believe is because 'Retro Enterprises' ( in Tokyo, Japan ) load both Super 8 and Single 8 carts ( .... Single 8 only having a 40ft capacity with acetate base film ). John S :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Collingwood Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 The only thing ( many ) folk complain about is, the carts are only loaded with 40ft of film not 50ft. This I believe is because 'Retro Enterprises' ( in Tokyo, Japan ) load both Super 8 and Single 8 carts ( .... Single 8 only having a 40ft capacity with acetate base film ). Well it's actually closer to 35' which makes the sticker price of $42/cart even harder to swallow. (Provia $1.42/ft vs 7285 Ekta $0.80/ft) I've shot 5 carts of it and it consistently ended at ~35'... This is actually because the film stock is thicker than other films so you literally cannot fit more into a cart without overstuffing it and the cartridge jamming. I do LOVE color reversal and can somewhat afford it so I do, but it's a less than idea solution. With that said, the colors are poppin and it's very sharp. In projection it looks wild! Also on the jamming note, the other big issue with the film related to its thickness is that it definitely does not run as smoothly through the camera as other stocks. At times, the stability is so bad that I literally got overlapping frames on the top and bottom. This with a camera that has shot other stocks like V3 and E100D just fine. So that's extremely undesirable. Here's a little example below... be sure to look at the top and bottom. Granted in projection it's a little better but I've never had issues like this with any other stock I've shot. This is from the raw scan from Gamma Ray Digital who did a great job stabilizing the main frame already. Also in other news.... the first released test footage of 7294 is out! Definitely less saturated than 7285. More latitude. Colors are semi-closer to Kodachrome in a way. Apparently it's based on Ektachrome E100G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Salim Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Yes, 7285 was actually Ektachrome 100VS ( 'vivid saturation' ) emulsion, and did in some instances look like Kodachome ! John S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member andy oliver Posted September 27, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted September 27, 2018 Nick, thanks for the provie footage, as i feared, poor registration, which is why i have avoided the stock (apart from 35mm slides) till i've seen a few more samples. The new kodak offing, i like the saturation, but not taken back by the image sharpness. Looking at the curves from Karim, K25 is well over the 100 mark, whilst 7294 is short of the 100 mark. Was k25 around 63 lppm, reckon 7294 will just under 50 lppm, which means soft looking super 8 as very little image area, one needs as much resolving power as possible, pitty kodak didn't opt for a 50 asa reversal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karim D. Ghantous Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I tried understanding MTF charts but I still don't completely get them. But I'm pretty sure that the x axis is resolution (line pairs). There is not too much difference in the x axis between K25 and E100D. The y axis implies that K25 is sharper, which is what we would expect, as it has thinner emulsion layers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I tried understanding MTF charts but I still don't completely get them. But I'm pretty sure that the x axis is resolution (line pairs). There is not too much difference in the x axis between K25 and E100D. The y axis implies that K25 is sharper, which is what we would expect, as it has thinner emulsion layers. The scale is logarithmic, so the difference is quite a bit greater than it appears. It's hard to read but at 50 cycles K25 resolution is something like 50% higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon O'Brien Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Just chinagraph a crop line in the viewfinder if you can get to it. Good idea. I used two strips of tape, top and bottom, on the ground glass of my Bolex S-16 to crop it to 2.35:1. That was really fiddly to put in place, and chinagraph would be much quicker, and still not scratch anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth North Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Hi, Thanks for the link to the test footage. Gives some idea how it would look in Super 16mm format and when professionally processed. The best shots are clearly when the sun is out I can't get over that yellow T shirt man and the Rose I think this stock is going to be just lovely to shoot with. Someone mentioned this maybe is closer to 64T not that I got chance to shoot that as a 16mm guy and they have gone up the saturation scale a notch but not fully to the original 7285 territory which yes of course was called Very saturated and boy was it! But this is a nice compromise to keep everyone happy. I think the reason it continued in VS is that the original kodak film catalogues had Kodakchrome and Ektachrome as a choice and you could go normal colour pallet or fully saturated. The Kodachrome went leaving only the VS Ektachrome option. They tried reformulating and came up with 64T less VS but clearly never really happy with it hence it not lasting long and never hitting 16mm. They have finally reformulated properly and got something a nudge up from Neutral which as I say I think will please most people most of the time. After all the alternative reversal film is....? Did anyone shoot the Agfa / Wittner Chrome 200D. I believe supply of that is nearly exhausted everywhere. I need to have a look at the one roll I shot with it this year. The Film Ferrarnia guys really missed there window to capitalise on there being no new Color Reversal didn't they! Best Regards Gareth North bolexh16user.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignacio benedeti Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Today, Saturday, Ektachrome Super-8 is in the Spanish newspapers. Inside, link also to a Super8 Ektachrome 1-minute trailer of my documentarie FERROL 7294, shoot last august: https://mimundoensuper-8.blogspot.com/2018/09/la-prensa-generalista-espanola-saluda.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Palmer Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) I haven't yet tried the new Ektachrome. Just wondering how it compares alongside the older 5285 / 7285. Has anyone done a test for colour and sharpness etc on the same subject ? I've been making a film using my freezer's 16mm 7285 so am curious if the footage will match well. Edited October 12, 2018 by Doug Palmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted October 12, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted October 12, 2018 I haven't yet tried the new Ektachrome. Just wondering how it compares alongside the older 5285 / 7285. Has anyone done a test for colour and sharpness etc on the same subject ? It shares nothing with the older Ektachrome. They were unable to figure out a modern way to make the old stock. So they basically formulated a new stock that has similar properties, which is why it's taken such a long time. The new stock does look really nice, I've seen some projected and it has an Ektachrome look, but it's a more modern look to me. I do think it will be a great stock for Super 8 people, but I don't think it will take off on any other format sadly. I would love to try some in 16mm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member David Mullen ASC Posted October 13, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted October 13, 2018 They only discontinued Ektachrome five years ago so I have a hard time believing they forgot how to make it, it probably looks the way they want it to look, for whatever reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Berger Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 They only discontinued Ektachrome five years ago so I have a hard time believing they forgot how to make it, it probably looks the way they want it to look, for whatever reasons. I'm thinking that it depends on what happened to their supply chain in the last five years and whether they were happy with their Ektachrome at that time. I wasn't happy with their VNF, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted October 13, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted October 13, 2018 They only discontinued Ektachrome five years ago so I have a hard time believing they forgot how to make it, it probably looks the way they want it to look, for whatever reasons. It's something to do with a certain component that's not being made anymore, or so I've been told. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Pickering Posted October 20, 2018 Share Posted October 20, 2018 My understanding was Kodak ended up making the needed chemicals itself for the ones they could no longer outsource. My understanding is the film is basically identical to the old stuff, according to what people are saying about the look of it. I plan on picking up some rolls in all formats when the finally get stock on it all. First batch of stock has already sold out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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